Episode #7: Dayna Altman

Hugo: [00:00:00] All right. Hey everyone. Uh, welcome to another episode. The seventh episode of the tracking happiness podcast. Uh, a show where we discuss stories of mental health, overcoming mental health issues or learning to live with them. Uh, stories from all over the world. And today I’m here with Dana Altman or is it Altman?

Uh,

Dayna: Yup. Um, Altman is

Hugo: Altman. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. So hi, thanks for being here. Happy to have you here.

Dayna: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to talk with you today.

Hugo: Me too. Me too. I think there’s a lot to discuss a lot of ways. This conversation, like a lot of directions we can go and we’re just going to see what happens. Right. Um, just, just, uh, to start things off easy. Um, yeah. Dana, who are you? Where are you from? What do you do and how are you doing?

Dayna: Yeah. Um,

sure. So as, as introduced, I’m Dana. Um, I’m from Boston, Massachusetts in the United States. I don’t think I’ve ever [00:01:00] done like a international podcast before.

So this is really

Hugo: That’s really cool,

Dayna: Yes, yes. Um, and I am a mental health speaker, author, entrepreneur. Um, I’ve been in the mental health field now since, um, let’s see, like almost 12 years.

I started in the clinical side of mental health, thinking that I want to be a social worker based on my own experience and the way social work and social workers helped and supported me when I was struggling the most. Um, but it was through an experience that I had it. I’m working at my kind of my dream job, actually, that I realized that my calling was really sharing my story in, in a different capacity. And that was it to youth, to in communities, um, able to get up on stage and use my own story to, um, hopefully inspire others, which you don’t, you can’t really do on the clinical side of things. This is more of like the macro level,

um, mental health. Um,

side, I guess. And so, yeah, I’ve been [00:02:00] doing that, um, for the last two years, um, working within an agency and a speaker’s bureau to share my story and hopefully inspire others.

So part of the reason I’m so excited to be here today and, and share.

Hugo: So this, this sounds very cool for me because this. Like I’m guessing this isn’t the first time you’ve gone into your story. Um, and to see, like, to hear that you’re doing this as, you know, your career right now, uh, using your experience to help others, it feels great to have you here to do it for free.

Dayna: Yes. Oh my gosh, of course. No, I’m so excited. I’m yeah, no, I, this is what I love. This is what, as I said, I feel like this is like my purpose. So I’m so happy to do it.

Hugo: Yeah. So your story, well, um, I’m, I’m, I’m guessing listeners are eager to know. Um,

Dayna: Yes.

Hugo: what, what, What’s your what’s your story like?

Dayna: Yeah, sure. so um, so I grew up in the suburbs of Boston, of Massachusetts, in a really [00:03:00] affluent town. So a town with a lot of resources, a family with a lot of

Hugo: Boston, that’s where all the universities are too, right? One of the big ones.

Dayna: Yes,

Hugo: Is that where actually Harvard is too? Or is that not?

Dayna: is.

Hugo: Oh, okay. Yeah. So for the international listeners, now you know.

Dayna: Yes, absolutely. So yes, so I grew up, um, like maybe 35 minutes outside of Boston and just like this really suburban area, but you’re right. That is where the big, uh, the big universities and big hospitals, kind of what Boston is, is

Hugo: yeah. Yeah,

Dayna: and a younger sister. And, um, I think on the outside, my life looks like really perfect for lack of a better term. You know, I, I did, I had all of these things. I was involved in a lot of Um, extracurricular activities.

There was so much, um, I really had the world at my fingertips, but inside, you know, I was really struggling. I never really felt like I was enough. Um, I never felt like good enough or smart enough, [00:04:00] beautiful enough, you know, insert word that I wanted to be. And I never really felt, I never really felt enough. Um, and this really drove a lot of. anxiety and sadness while I was growing up, but I really didn’t have the words for it or like the language until I went to college. Um, and when I went to college, you know, first time away from home, not having my support system, um, my mental health kind of exploded in a way that I wasn’t able to ignore anymore.

Um, just like having panic attacks or anxiety attacks and, um, Just not able to function. I’m so grateful that I met some really wonderful friends, my freshman year of high school, excuse me, of college, who brought me to the counseling center. And, um, you

Hugo: So

they, they were recognizing that, hey, Dana is, is just heading down a bad road. Uh, let’s just help her that way.

Dayna: Yeah, and I am so grateful and I think that’s part of the reason why I feel so excited to share my [00:05:00] story because like without those friends, like, I don’t know what would have happened, you know, I, so I love being able to speak to young people, especially to let them know that, you know, um, they have the power to support people. Someone in their

Hugo: Oh yeah. Because looking back now, even when you didn’t notice it at the time, perhaps, well, that moment was pivotal in your life.

Dayna: exactly. It really was. I feel like I should reach out to them today. Um, I haven’t talked to them in a while, but it was really pivotal. It was really pivotal.

Hugo: Oh, wow.

Dayna: yeah. So I,

Hugo: Well, lesson number one of the podcast, I suppose.

Dayna: Yes, exactly. Exactly. so yeah, I quickly like, you know, got into the world of therapy and medication. I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and depression, as well as an eating disorder.

You know, the eating disorder side of things was really surprising to me because I had always thought that like, you could tell if someone had an eating disorder just by looking at them. And I think that’s a very scary myth that I think a lot of people think [00:06:00]

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Dayna: it comes to eating disorders, um,

mom has really struggled herself.

And I think that that up in that environment, um, I’d always felt like, you know, I just wanted her to see me, to love me and like, and you know, at the most like core level. And so in a lot of ways, I think my eating disorder, like a way of our connection. And so. Kind

Hugo: So,

Dayna: into

Hugo: oh yeah.

Yeah.

Dayna: and

like wanting

to get better was like kind of a loss of some of my family connections in a lot of ways.

You know, I still feel very close to my family, but it’s definitely different, um, than it was, which is

Hugo: So, so your mother grew up in totally different times. I guess. Well, times are changing. Mental health is slowly being destigmatized. Luckily.

Dayna: Exactly.

Hugo: but I I guess for your mother, you say she has struggled too. uh, I’m guessing that she didn’t have the, that, that group of friends, that, that pivotal moment that, that was like, Hey, you might need help.

Um, there’s help out there for you.

Dayna: [00:07:00] right, right, right. Exactly. Yes. And you’re right. It’s slowly becoming de stigmatized and even thinking about like my college experience 10 years ago, like how, um, more, Oh my gosh. Um, how different it is now. Um, I like sometimes forget how old I am. Um, but anyway, so, um, yeah. So it’s really exciting to know that like we are making, Significant strides in that area.

But, um, you know, throughout college kind of went into different treatment programs until my sophomore year. Um, second semester, I was struggling a lot with suicidal ideation

Hugo: Hmm.

Dayna: really like could not get that

out of my head. Um, I had failed a test in one of my classes and like, I felt like that was the ultimate, like I’m not enough. Feeling and had like become pretty close to, to feeling like this was the end for me

and

Hugo: Oh wow.

Dayna: back now and knowing like how

young I was and like how much I had in front of me is very [00:08:00] painful. And, um, I’m really grateful that like I called my mom. I was like, I can’t do this anymore. And I took a medical leave, um, from college, which was very challenging.

I think, especially here

Hugo: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Dayna: You

Hugo: No,

Dayna: international workers,

Hugo: I,

kind of get what you’re going at. Like, like,

Dayna: Yeah.

Hugo: from an outside, like the U. S. is this, like, everyone knows the U. S. and the high school system and what you’re talking about. Um, the, the, the pressure to perform. Um, yeah, I can see what you’re getting at. Yeah. So, and that was like in your, in your twenties, I suppose.

You’re in college, 19. Yeah.

Dayna: Yeah,

Hugo: That’s tough.

Dayna: it was, it really

was. And you know, I, I, that I went into medically on a medical leave and I ended up getting into this other treatment program, um, where I met my therapist who I’ve now been seeing for years and years and years. Um, which was so pivotal for me, another [00:09:00] pivotal moment meeting her. And, um, people ask me all the time, like what it is about her. Cause you know, like it’s, it’s hard to find a therapist. And like, I think that she really. empowered me to find the answers inside. And like, I really wanted someone to like, give me the answers and, um, you know, kind of guide me. And, and

Hugo: Yeah.

Dayna: done that, but she’s empowered me to see like my own potential, which I don’t think, I mean, I can’t think of a greater gift than that.

Hugo: So, so, was it like, or that was years ago, that was, uh, like when you’re 19, you, um, you

stumbled upon this therapist that you’re still with today or?

Dayna: Yes. Yup. We’re still together

Hugo: That’s, that’s,

Dayna: like,

Hugo: was it the first therapist that you connected with?

Yeah.

Dayna: before her, name’s Dina, before Dina named Kathy. She’s so wonderful. I still like, you know, keep in touch with her, but, um, [00:10:00] I think that Dina and I had like connected on like a different, in a different capacity.

And I think it’s nice to know that like, I’ve had so many integral professionals in my life and like all kind of working together as a team is, is really amazing.

Um, and, and, But Dina was definitely

like kind of a different connection, I would

Hugo: The, the, how do you say The main cog in the machine.

Dayna: Yes, exactly. Exactly. I

Hugo: That’s, that’s a word I don’t use often in the, in the Netherlands.

So

Dayna: that’s exactly how, how it feels.

Hugo: but, and all right, so then just another question. How did it feel as a, as a 19 year old to, uh, get therapy?

Dayna: Yeah, you know, I felt really alone. I think that I took that medical leave, I ended up transferring schools because I couldn’t, I just didn’t want to go back to that school where I, that’s like how I was seen

Hugo: Oh yeah,

Dayna: I’m so grateful that I [00:11:00] transferred

schools like that ended up being great, but I think that that really speaks to the stigma that I was experiencing and that like,

Hugo: oh yeah. yeah.

Yeah.

Dayna: was around me,

Hugo: As if, as if you had failed.

Dayna: exactly. Yes, exactly. Right. So. I’m so grateful that I’ve been in therapy for so long. Um, but it definitely was hard to, to get need so much help, especially like. person. And also it kind of felt like out of nowhere, you know, I mean, I was living kind of like this quote unquote normal life in high school.

I mean, I was definitely struggling, but like not to this extent. And very quickly it really escalated. And

Hugo: Yeah,

Dayna: know, the mental health hospitalization

world is like very, I mean, I’m so grateful. I’ve had such, I had such amazing, experiences in all of the treatment programs that I was in. And I, I know I am very privileged to be able to say that. Um, that is not lost on me,

Hugo: Yeah.

Dayna: I [00:12:00] think that, um,

it’s, it’s just interesting to think about that world and like, not even really even knowing it existed two years prior to when this all began.

Hugo: And that’s funny. That’s a common theme on the past on the podcast. But but like most mental health issues are invisible to others, and that’s partially because we try to hide it because, you know, stigma and, you know, we’re too proud to admit that we might be struggling. But it’s also just not as like people only see injuries that are, you know, you’re walking with a limp or you’ve got burns on your arms.

Like no one asked, Hey, how are you doing inside? Um, and then what I, what I’m hearing is that from the outside, like if I had met you back then, I would have thought, Hey Dana, she’s

Dayna: Yeah,

Hugo: she’s kicking life’s ass.

Dayna: yeah,

Hugo: But then,

Dayna: Yeah,

Hugo: but then a week later, you say you were hospitalized, hospitalized.

Dayna: I was met many many times, um, different levels, you

Hugo: Mm hmm.

Dayna: there, I did have an inpatient stay, um, [00:13:00] residential programs, partial programs, um, Yeah, that was a big part of my life. And I think that at that time, like I really, that felt like my future, which is really like hard to imagine

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Dayna: a future outside

of the hospital. But like, I think I just remember someone telling me once, like, just hearing the term, like revolving door patient, like, you know, you leave and then you just come back. And I just like, did not want to be that.

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Dayna: but yeah,

and I think that like. I have no shame to anyone who, who identifies that way. It’s just like, that was very scary to me.

Like, I still remember that term because I was just like, I can’t imagine doing this forever.

Hugo: if you’re labeled and doomed for life, I guess.

Dayna: Yes,

Hugo: Oh, yeah. yeah. Oh, wow. So I want to get to. Oh, I might. This is a question I normally ask later in the podcast, but I can imagine someone’s listening or multiple people are listening to this and feeling like, [00:14:00] hey, I’m struggling with the same things. And right now I’m I’m keeping up.

I’m keeping up appearances, you know. Um, and I’m afraid of, of being labeled and being seen as a failure. What, what do you say to those people?

Dayna: I think, Oh, I just like took a deep breath. Cause like, I know how that feels. And I just like, I guess I wish that I knew that like that asking for help and like being able to be authentic. And even if that’s really scary is so brave, like that is so, so, and should be celebrated. And there are resources and people who want to help, even when it doesn’t feel like you have anyone, you know, we’re so grateful.

So, so, so grateful. I’m so grateful to have been in therapy and have had like these real, um, pivotal resources and friends. But even if you feel like you’re alone, you know, um, there it’s interesting, like my therapist, a lot of times people say like, they don’t want to be a burden to someone else. And my therapist [00:15:00] really like flip that on its head for me. And it was kind of like, well, we’re like in this together, you know, like, we’re all like, we all have, like, we all carry, like, I guess burdens is like, it has like a negative connotation, but like, we’re all, you know, we all, we want to support you. And so I guess to anyone who feels like they have to keep up, you know, appearances, I hope that they recognize that, like, getting help is not a weakness.

And, um, it’s incredibly brave. And also like, it can be at your pace. Um, I think that was something that was really scary for me in the beginning was like, am I ready for all of this? And like, just kind of recognizing that, um, you can take your time with like treatment and,

Hugo: Okay.

Dayna: meeting yourself where you’re at.

I

think.

Hugo: That, that, that sounds

encouraging to hear, or at least, well, like I’m imagining a cliff where you

have to take one more step and you, fall off. But hearing this, it sounds more like a gentle slope

where you [00:16:00] can,

Dayna: I like that.

Hugo: yeah.

Dayna: exactly. And I think that, um, Something that’s been really helpful for me as well has been just like recognizing, just like I said, it’s great, like people want to help, you know, they really do. I always thought that like, that that wasn’t the case, like if I was honest about how I was feeling, like everyone would run away.

But I’ve only found being vulnerable has brought me a lot of joy. The deepest relationships and friendships that I have now. And wouldn’t have that without being honest and like authentic to myself. So I think that’s important to recognize too.

Hugo: Lesson number two.

I’ve skipped a couple. It feels like lesson number 10, But, um,

Dayna: Yeah.

Hugo: was a good What was the first one again?

Oh yeah. Reach out to friends if they’re struggling. Don’t be afraid. And second one. Even though there’s been many already.

You Um, Be vulnerable. Because

Dayna: Yeah.

Hugo: can feel really great to be vulnerable.

And [00:17:00] good things come from being vulnerable.

vulnerable.

Dayna: Definitely.

Hugo: All right. So, so um, Being hospitalized. What was that? Your low points?

Um,

Dayna: Yeah, I would say so. You know, when you’re in the hospital, it feels like, of like what I had said, like the revolving door. Like, I can’t see beyond this. And like, also the shame that like, comes with that. I think, as brave as it is to ask for help, you know, it’s hard to be in that, position. Like you

Hugo: Yeah,

Dayna: so many of

your, like, you know, you can’t have your phone.

Like, you know, you can’t have like a sweatshirt. Like there’s just so many things that you don’t even recognize that you’re like taking for granted out in the world, like is, is taken away from you. And, you know, that is exactly what I needed at the time. And it’s like, it’s not a punishment. It’s like, that’s what I, that’s what I needed.

I needed safety and security, but it is really, you know, when I worked on the mental health thing, Side of, of things like years and years later, when I [00:18:00] decided I actually worked at the hospital that I was treated at, um, which was a very

Hugo: Wow. full circle. Yeah.

Dayna: A very

full circle. Yes. Um, I just remember telling like, when I worked with like youth, so I remember just being like, you know, nothing’s worth more important than your mental health, like not kids would miss like proms and birthdays.

And like, I genuinely feel that way. Like, but it’s easy for you to say when you get to leave at the end of the night, you know what I mean? Like,

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Dayna: Having that experience,

like recognizing that, like, I can say that to you and I do believe that, but like, I, I get to go home at the end of the day.

So that was like, it’s just a dichotomy that I’ve been thinking about a lot recently,

Hugo: So you’re saying like your experience helps connect to the people that you’re working with nowadays.

Dayna: absolutely. Yeah. exactly.

Hugo: Also another common theme on the

podcast. I want to get to that later, but that’s really nice. Well, such a Such an amazing story. Um,

Dayna: Thank

Hugo: [00:19:00] uh, let’s see. So, all right, just taking a step back.

Um, you’re in the hospital, you meet your therapist, who’s great. Uh, Dana, uh, was she like, was it like from the first session? Was it right? Oh, wow. This is, this is the best therapist that I’ve ever had. Or was it more like an, uh, a learning curve?

Dayna: I’m laughing because I was like

afraid of her when I met her. Um, I was like,

Hugo: Afraid as in, as in she was going to hit you if you

Dayna: intense, like, I’m gonna help you, like, I don’t, the therapist that I had seen before, Kathy, who I definitely, you know, genuinely connected with and adore and love, she’s so, like, warm, and Dina is very warm, too, but it took, like, a little bit, Of time to like see that and I think that yeah, it was so it wasn’t immediate by any means, but

Hugo: So as in you were afraid, like she was showing you all these hard truths and like a drill sergeant, that’s what I’m imagining right now. So, uh, [00:20:00] Oh,

Dayna: truth, like, like you said, I just remember, like, feeling, um. I remember during like our first session, I was like crying and like really emotional and she was just like, let’s set some goals, you know, like stay on track um, but I also think that we’ve worked together for so long and she, you know, knows me so well and, um, Probably looking back would know that like that was probably not like, like the, our greatest start, but hey, like, look at where we are now.

And you know, it’s, it’s so, it’s so amazing because it’s been like 12 years together. And so like, I’ve seen her grow up, like she got married, she has children, like, there’s so many like amazing things that I’ve got to see her through,

Hugo: cool.

Dayna: obviously in a different way. way,

but like, just even seeing her like grow as a therapist and like, be able to be like, so like soft and gentle when like, when I met her, she [00:21:00] was like scary. Um, so, so yeah, that, that is, that is a nice thing to think about.

Hugo: Might be less than number three here. If the first session is like, get me out of here, then you’re might be onto something and it might be the start of a beautiful relationship.

Dayna: Yeah.

Hugo: I often hear people like, Oh, I’ve tried therapy and I’ve tried this and that and it’s taking me 10 times and it’s cost me a lot of money and now I’ve just sort of given up on therapy.

Um, but then this. This is also a common theme a little bit, but like therapy, like you cannot go in expecting to get it off right away to be on the path to like on the greatest path straight away. It takes some effort and it takes some getting used to getting to know each other, I guess.

Dayna: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think, um, you know, because I was in the hospital first when I met her, I was like, almost like kind of forced to be with her for like a month. [00:22:00]

Hugo: Yeah,

Dayna: so, but then obviously by

choice, um, for the last 12 years. Um, but I agree. Like, it is really hard. That was something that was really hard for me. When I started therapy, like my first hospital program, I like genuinely thought that like showing up was going to be enough to like make me better, but it’s like so much work and it’s like so exhausting and it’s all worth it times a thousand, but um, it was, it was hard. It’s hard work. It really

Hugo: yeah, yeah. So what kind of therapy are we talking about?

Dayna: so program that I met Dina in was DBT based, so like dialectical behavioral therapy, which all about managing emotions and leaning into them, seeing two things to be true at once, one of the deepest, hardest lessons I think I’ve ever learned. So that was the start of our relationship. And, you know,

Hugo: Yeah.

Dayna: since then it’s become more like she’s used a lot [00:23:00] of different, um, like techniques, I guess, like when, from other areas. Um, but it’s interesting because we’ve definitely like had to bring on other people over the years, like, um, seeing a psychiatrist. And then also I see a therapist now that’s like specifically for OCD and anxiety. Um, You know, I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder when I was 18, and then when I was 25, I finally found this amazing psychiatrist who was like, I think this is OCD. I was like, yeah, I do too. Um, and, and so did Dina and like, we all kind of had this epiphany that together that like, this is, I think. me, the way my OCD manifests and like the way my brain works, it feels so normal. Like, this is like what I, what I live with every day. Like, I don’t think, I never thought to say to like a therapist, like, I’m trying to think of a good example.

Like I have to lock my [00:24:00] car three times plus one, and that will keep my family safe because that’s just like, that’s what I’ve been doing since I was 16. And I got my license, you know? So I feel

Hugo: Yeah,

Dayna: there was a lot that was definitely that kind of set me back a little bit, but I’m seeing a new, um, OCD specific therapist, Kelly, who I adore. Um, and, but it’s hard, it’s hard work. And it’s, it’s a good reminder that like, It’s like, I feel like every time you take on a new piece of work, it almost feels like you’re kind of going back to the beginning. You’re never are. You’re always bringing your progress with you, of course, but, um, kind of laying into this side of my struggle is, is, is, um. Reminds me of how hard it was in the

Hugo: yeah, it’s it’s funny. It’s interesting. When I started this idea of interviewing people about stories of mental health, I just called it Hey, this is a show or a series of people overcoming their mental health struggles. But then within within a couple of days, [00:25:00] I got feedback like, Hey, it’s not always overcoming.

It’s it’s learning to live with it, getting the tools to navigate the issues, whether. You get rid of them totally. Uh, sometimes that’s not even possible. You just, that’s a part of who you are and you have to learn how to cope with that in a, in a healthy way. Um, I’m getting the feeling that that is an endless journey here.

Um, but, but if you choose not to do the work, then there’s going to be, well, yeah, that’s not, that’s not really an option. I think, well, it is, but it’s not the best option.

Dayna: Right. Right, right. Yeah. I think that it’s painful as it can be to really dig into these feelings and, and. Experiences like you’re right. I mean, you could ignore it, but you certainly wouldn’t be living like a full life and the way like, difficulties will kind of like pop up and manifest in different ways.

So, but I [00:26:00] completely agree. I, I used to similar to you. I used to think that this was like something that I would overcome,

Hugo: Mm hmm.

Dayna: one day. And I have learned

that this is just like. You know, we take on one piece of work at a time. This is like a struggle for me. But it’s also given me so much, like, I shared, you know, being vulnerable has brought on the best relationships, um, connections, community, my career.

You know, there’s been a lot that I’ve taken with, from this. I mean, I wouldn’t wish it on anybody, but because I have experienced it, you know, I am. Really? Like there is a big part of me that grateful for, for that,

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah.

Dayna: for what it’s worth

Hugo: And so, and so your journey has been, uh, very varied. It’s been deep, has been, uh, well, like a roller coaster, it sounds, uh, but now you’re using it, uh, in your, in your career to help others. Can you tell a little bit more about that?

Dayna: Yeah, absolutely. So [00:27:00] I guess I like to start at the beginning. I feel like I’ve always been an entrepreneur since I was like eight years old. I absolutely loved musical theater. So when I was eight, I created something called the not so off Broadway players. And it was like a little theater troupe where we like went around and like performed at senior centers.

And so I think I’ve always carried this like entrepreneurial spirit. Piece of me. I’m like, love, love being creative. And like, that’s really, I’ve seen that really evolve over my life. You know, I loved theater. So I took theater and being creative and I created something and now, you know, it’s mental health.

That’s, my mission, you know, um, Like, and my purpose, as I’ve said a couple of times, cause I really do believe that. Um, it’s my, it is my mission. So I have since, um, kind of become an entrepreneur and created an organization called Bake It Till You Make It, which uses food and baking to talk about mental health in a way that is fun and, but also [00:28:00] vulnerable.

And, and, you know, gets into those deep conversations without feeling so scary, because you’re, you’re, you’re vulnerable. baking with someone or you’re speaking over cupcakes or whatever. Um, and bake it till you make it really started out of my own experience with depression. You know, I got my master’s degree after I graduated from my undergrad and during my master’s program, it was really hard.

I was very depressed. It was a very, very challenging time. Um, you know, I wasn’t like hospitalization, but it was, you know, it was, it was very hard. Um, and right during that summer, when I was struggling so much, I like one more thing, I got into this like car accident that I was completely at fault for. Yeah. And so

I, um,

Hugo: at

fault or not at fault.

Dayna: fault. No, it

Hugo: Okay, not, not that it matters, but like there was a car accident regardless of what happened. Yeah.

Dayna: yes, regardless, I guess I just like to take ownership

of it at this point because I feel terrible. But anyway, um, still all [00:29:00] these years later, um, but yeah, so I didn’t have a car. That was kind of like where I was going with this. So like for a while I didn’t have a car. And so I was looking for things in my home to, um, you know, feel better, like to do something to like give myself, you know, some purpose, I guess.

Hugo: Yeah, distraction or something. Yeah. Yeah.

Dayna: of the above. And so I started baking and this was pretty new for me. I didn’t really like cook or bake before this that, um, that much, I guess, I think a large part has to do with eating disorder history and just like feeling afraid of food in that way. But I started baking and I started inviting friends over to bake with me.

And I just had this idea that there should be a mental health cookbook that like called bake it till you make it. That was this idea that I had. And usually when I have ideas or like going through entrepreneurial ventures, I like the next day it is like, On Instagram, but this was was a [00:30:00] long it was years of like putting it together.

And so the book is basically, um, over 40 people sharing their stories, um, whether that’s them struggling personally with their mental health, whether it’s supporting someone who struggles with their mental health, um, maybe going through resilient. becoming resilient, um, sharing a challenge as well as recipes that were important to them and, um, resource pages.

And so loved this idea and I was able to publish it. It’s actually coming up on like it’s five year anniversary, which is

Hugo: Wow.

Dayna: July 4th, not

related to the holiday, but

Hugo: Cool. that’s five days from now.

Dayna: yes, Exactly. So, um, so yeah. And I really thought that that was going to be the beginning and end of. Bake it till you make it. Um, but in promoting the book, I started doing these presentations where I would bake and share my story at the same time. So I would be like cracking eggs and talking about the [00:31:00] hospitalizations. Like this is

Hugo: Yeah.

Dayna: like things were falling apart for

me and it got like some really great feedback.

And then the pandemic hit and I started doing these virtually. So people were baking with me, but like,

Hugo: Good idea. Yeah. Oh,

Dayna: it. There’s three more books now at this point in the world, um, and all under the, the, the bake until you make it series, um, in, and so recipes and mental health stories, um, kind of in different formats, but that’s the, that’s the, the piece of it.

And then, um, yeah. And then in 2022, um, I was a part of the youth mental health action forum, which was, um, started. What was created by MTV and the Biden Harris administration. And it basically allowed 30 young mental health advocates to go to the White House and to share, um, we, I guess, like [00:32:00] the idea was that we worked in groups, all 30 of us to create campaigns, and then we were able to get in front of some really wonderful, um, amazing partners to hopefully like find someone who wants to take on the project.

But I was one of. Um, a few people who got to like speak on stage at the white house, which was like an

amazing. And

I’ve never been so nervous in my life, but also like, I’ll never forget it. Um, so that I feel like has opened a lot of doors to, in a way, like, I thought that that was going to be like the moment that just like sent my career, you know, on the New York times bestseller list, like on the, on Oprah, you know, all of these things.

And that certainly hasn’t been the case, but it has like, you know, I’m realizing that it’s not one moment. It’s

Hugo: Yeah. How many people can say that, that that’s, uh,

Dayna: Yeah,

Hugo: yeah.

Dayna: that’s very true. So these, these small things and, and through that experience, I got to be a part of the Speaker’s Bureau, um, with Active Minds, which was, [00:33:00] um, really huge for me.

It was something I always wanted to do. And, um, I also, there’s a bake it till you make it documentary in the world, which was, um, created out of the youth mental health action forum. Um, another participant wanted to share my story through film. So, um, it’s been a journey, you

Hugo: Wow.

Dayna: has. There’s

Hugo: And, and arguably none of that would have happened had your friends not helped you see, uh, seek help. Wow. Wow.

Dayna: No, that’s very

Hugo: It’s a funny thing, though, with, with like you’re you’re living your life and suddenly something happens that you didn’t expect to happen on a day and then whoosh, your life is never, uh, it’s completely different for in a good way, though, like it sounds so amazing everything that you’ve done.

And I don’t want to say it as a result of what you have been going through, but.

it. feels like you were shaped by by the struggles and now you’re able to to use that in in this spectacular way. It’s it’s It’s really [00:34:00] great. I I don’t know, but it sounds like a more fun version of the of this podcast. Just talking about mental health struggles, but cooking, cooking,

Dayna: Yes.

Hugo: baking cupcakes and stuff like that.

Dayna: Yes. Exactly. This is really fun too, though. I have to, I have to say. This podcast is fun.

Hugo: Yeah.

No one’s believing you anymore.

Dayna: That’s

Hugo: All right. Um, wow. Well, what a story. Um, I do have to, uh, slowly wrap this up a little. Um, but man, thanks already. Thanks for having been here. Is there anything, and this is a lazy question. I always feel like, but is, is there anything I should have asked you that you wanted to talk a little bit more about?

Dayna: that’s such a good question. Um, I feel like we hit so many things. I feel like I’m the, my biggest, like, takeaway or like, I have a couple of [00:35:00] takeaways. Um,

Hugo: More lessons.

Dayna: hit on

Hugo: Yep. Nice.

Dayna: Right. Right. Right. We hit on one of them, which is like, you know, asking for help is incredibly brave and nothing to be ashamed of.

Hugo: Yeah.

Dayna: also think that I truly believe at my core that, like, everyone’s story matters. Like, I, I just, I believe that. I think we all have a story whether it’s mental health related or not. Um, and I think like finding value in that is so, so powerful. I feel like that has been so transformative for me coming to own my story.

And you know, you don’t have to share it on stage either. Like it can be in a journal or with a friend or therapist, you know, it doesn’t have to be like, In this large way, but I’ve just found like so much healing and leaning into what I’ve been through and being proud of that. And I think that’s okay. I think that’s more than okay.

I think that’s great.

Hugo: Yeah.

Dayna: and then the last thing that I just want to say is, um, you know, if you’re struggling, you’re listening and you’re struggling with your mental health, [00:36:00] um. You know, for me, it’s definitely, as we said, like it’s shaped my career, it’s shaped my life and I’m, I’m so grateful for that.

And that’s what I wanted, but it doesn’t have to, for you, you know, you can live a full and complete life with anxiety, with OCD. Like it doesn’t have to be the guiding source of, of, of everything, you know, you can have a very full life and, um, and I think that’s amazing. And so I guess I just want to say that, cause I never want. to walk away feeling like if they’re struggling, this is like, this has, this is a life sentence. Like they’re signed up for this career, this like world, you know, you can’t, but it doesn’t, you can, as I’ve done and I love it and it’s been the right choice for me, but it doesn’t have to be for

Hugo: Yeah.

Dayna: guess I just wanted to say that.

Hugo: I guess you’re a living example of, of like what, what good can come of dropping your guard, seeking help and, you know, stepping off that, that cliff, which turns out it’s not a cliff, but just a gentle slope towards a better,

more fulfilled and authentic life. [00:37:00]

Dayna: Yeah,

Hugo: wow. Beautiful. Um, Hey, um, if people want to learn more about you, where can they find you?

Dayna: Yes. So my website is bake it till you make it dot CO. So not. com

Hugo: Ah,

Dayna: I know, I know.

Right. Maybe. com someday, but at this point, not CO. Um, I also am pretty active on Instagram, which is just bake it till you make it LLC or my name, Dana Altman. Um, I post on both. Pretty authentically and I think those are, those are two great places to get. And within my, um, within my Instagram is like an option to email me. So if you hear this and you want to connect, love to hear from you.

Hugo: All right. Well, I’ll be sure to drop those in the, in the comments or the description or the show notes below. Um, yeah, well, it’s been really nice having you here. Thanks a lot. Um, I’m sure listeners, uh, feel like they’ve There’s so much to relate to in this story. And I love that you have been able to be courageous and [00:38:00] just share everything about it.

Yeah. Thank you very much.

Dayna: Oh, thank you so much.

for having me. It was really wonderful to talk to you.

Hugo: So it’s now, it’s now like almost 11, 11 am in Boston, what’s the rest of your day look like?

Dayna: I’m going to see Inside Out two, the like mental health Disney movie. Okay.

Hugo: about, well, yeah.

Dayna: I know it’s actually my second time seeing it. I saw it with my family. I’m going to take my fiance cause I loved it so much. I can’t wait to see it again.

Hugo: Well, what a fitting end of the show. Well, thanks for that.

Dayna: Honestly, yes,

Hugo: I don’t spoil. Well, you, you cannot be spoiled because you’ve seen it already. But anyway, um, I, I do, I do need to see it still. The first one was pretty great. Um, well, yeah, have a, have a, have a nice time then.

Dayna: Thank

Hugo: Thanks again. And, and just a fair warning, this, this, this ending of the podcast, it’s always a little tricky with me.

I, still don’t know how to properly end a show. So, um, I’m just gonna [00:39:00] say, well, goodbye. Have a, great day. Uh, thanks for having been here. And, uh, yeah. See you in the next time.

Dayna: Thank you.

Hugo: Bye.

Bye

Dayna: bye.

Hugo: Well, there you have it. That was another episode of the Tracking Happiness podcast. Now, if you liked this episode, please leave a review of this podcast on the platform you’re listening to. It will really help me share these stories with more people. If you didn’t like this episode, yeah, just disregard all that.

If you want to learn more about my guest, do check out any links in the notes below. Or if you want to be a guest on the podcast, please go to trackinghappiness. com slash share your story. And before you know it, you will help others overcome their own struggles of mental health. Lastly, I hope you have a great day wherever you are.

See you in the next one. Bye bye.