Episode #14: Stephanie Gilbert

Hugo: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of the tracking happiness podcast, a show about mental health, overcoming struggles, or at least learning to live with them. And today I’ve got Stephanie with me here. Hi, Stephanie.

Stephanie: Hello. It’s nice to be here.

Hugo: Hi. Yeah. Great to have you here. Thanks for being on the podcast. So mental health struggles.

Um, yeah. Overcoming them. Um, like everyone has a story, right? Um, And we’re here to just openly discuss, um, well, your, your story, because you do have a very inspiring story, I think. Um,

Stephanie: you.

Hugo: but, but first, uh, just to start off with easy questions, a couple of easy questions. Uh, well, uh, how are you doing? Uh, where are you from and what do you do?

Stephanie: I am doing really well. Thank you for asking. Uh, I am. Ooh, where am I from? I’ve, I’ve lived in a few different places. So I am originally from Kansas city.

Hugo: Okay.

Stephanie: in the United [00:01:00] States.

Uh, I’ve lived in Illinois.

I’ve lived in California. I’ve lived in Florida. Um, for a brief time I lived overseas with family in Australia.

Hugo: Oh,

Stephanie: now, though, I’m in Florida.

Hugo: Oh,

the way you said Australia. Well, that was the only word that had that Australian accent.

Like you, you

Stephanie: from my Australian family.

Hugo: you sort of went back there.

Stephanie: ha, ha.

Hugo: Oh, wow. It was just that word, and then it went back to English.

Stephanie: I’m sure I’ve picked it up along the way. I can’t even hear it. Honestly,

Hugo: Well, maybe to my listeners, if you, if you heard it too, let me know, because if I’m paranoid, then that might too be the case. Uh, in my hair, I’m starting to hear things. Um, who knows? Ha ha ha.

Stephanie: a licensed mental health professional. So in the United States, I’m a licensed marriage and family therapist.

Hugo: Uh huh.

Stephanie: I am licensed currently

fully licensed in California and Florida.

Hugo: Ah, [00:02:00] okay.

Stephanie: And how that works is

I work fully telehealth, so I can see clients in both states.

Hugo: Ah, that’s, that’s, so you have to, in a state, you have to be licensed in a state,

in a state before you can operate in it.

Stephanie: Currently, yes. I think they’re trying to make changes to make telehealth more accessible for everyone, but right now it’s state by state.

Hugo: Because I can imagine if you’re in Alaska somewhere, like the pool of therapists isn’t as big as in California.

Stephanie: Yes, yes, that is a current issue and I think there’s actually some legislation working currently right now to, to break down those barriers. Um, but right now if you want to work with, say if I wanted to work with clients in Alaska, I’d have to apply for an Alaskan license.

Hugo: no one does that, right?

Stephanie: unfortunately, no, it’s a lot, it’s time consuming and often, you know, the red tape, but,

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Stephanie: change soon.

Hugo: Yeah. Okay. Well, nice. Yeah. So in the Netherlands, well, to be honest, like I well, Europe is kind of different. Well, it’s kind of [00:03:00] the same. Like we’re also a bunch of countries combined. Like,

the States is kind of the same, like, you’re practically, uh, like a bunch of countries, but you are under one federal government, whereas in Europe we are just, well, we do have the European Union, but it’s, it’s a bit different, but I, I wouldn’t go to a German therapist or a Norwegian or a Spanish, um, yeah, um, but for you guys, it would make sense to, especially if you’re working remote, uh, you can check in online, yeah, and, uh,

Stephanie: Absolutely.

Hugo: So, well, this is a question that might, oh, I do want to get to and I’ll forget otherwise.

But how, how do you, what do you think of, um, telehealth? Like getting to talk to people like we are right now on, on an online,

in an online session.

Stephanie: I, love it. Um, I I find it just as effective as in person. It’s different.

Hugo: Mm hmm.

Stephanie: I would, you know, tell your listeners

it’s different. So if you really prefer in [00:04:00] person therapy and can access it. Because so many people can’t

Hugo: Oh yeah. All the, all the people from Alaska.

Stephanie: Yeah, exactly. Um, so if you can access it and you want an in person therapist, absolutely do that.

But I have found in, you know, during COVID, it really, you know, became Essential. I won’t even say popular. It was essential for

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Stephanie: telehealth, but I was doing a

little bit of telehealth before COVID. Now, honestly, I don’t feel the need to go back maybe one day, but I find that it’s just as effective as in person.

And it’s so convenient.

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Stephanie: drive to your session.

You know, it really reduces, you know, if you’re running late or things like

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Stephanie: fit it

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: life.

Hugo: yeah.

Stephanie: Um, you don’t have to

be in a certain location. And that’s, I mean, I’m all for more access to mental health resources.

Hugo: Oh yeah, yeah. Also for people seeking out therapy, like, the effort it takes to step into someone’s office is [00:05:00] much bigger than just checking in online, I suppose.

Stephanie: I agree. I agree. So, no, I’m a big fan.

Hugo: Ah, nice, well, good to hear. Um, yeah, so, alright, so mental health stories. Um, we did the interview a year ago, like the interview on tracking happiness. And I was really, um, well, your, your, your story is just very inspiring. And like, it’s, it’s come full circle in a way. I feel like, uh, but why don’t you take us, um, to the start

Stephanie: Sure. So at the beginning, no,

Hugo: at the beginning? There was nothing

Stephanie: Yeah, well, so I, like I said before, I grew up in, um, you know, I was born in a, in a larger city in the United States, but I

Hugo: so Kansas

city.

Stephanie: Kansas city.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: good size city, but I moved at around six years old. I moved to a smaller town, so about 30, 000 people. Um, and shortly after that, about nine years old, my father passed away. And honestly, at that point, I mean, I [00:06:00] don’t think anyone was thinking about mental health at all. Um, because it just wasn’t talked about. Um, so as a kid, I wasn’t, you know, put into therapy. Um, of course my mom was asking me how I was doing and things like that, but there really wasn’t the, the resources.

Um, I didn’t know to ask for anything. Of course, you’re a kid.

Hugo: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Stephanie: you know, I was showing definitely looking back signs of depression, um, which I think were very understandable. I think, you know, my family at that time assumed, you know, it’s probably, you know, the loss of her father, which was, I think, correct. Um, but then it quickly turned into an eating disorder. Um, and small town in Illinois at that time. I mean, my mom really did try to find me resources. Um, you know, I went to a couple of different therapists. Um, they weren’t [00:07:00] really specialized at all at that point. Um, so, and, and if anyone has had the experience of an eating disorder, I mean, it can be very conflicting to go at that point.

I mean, I wanted help, but I didn’t really want help.

Hugo: So is that like the internal battle between like, like that you’ve got on the one side, you’ve got that voice telling you to not eat because eating is, is bad. And you know, on the other side, you have the rationale, like saying, like, of course you need to eat more. So,

Stephanie: you know, you can give, give a person all the psychoeducation. So at that point, I mean, I understood, you know, okay, this needs to change, but the ability to change, I mean, that was really how I was coping at that point. And,

Hugo: years old, losing your father, which, well, yeah, that, that, uh, is, is just terrible at that age. Yeah. Um, and I’ve. six years later that that kind of, [00:08:00] um, manifested itself into an eating disorder. Yeah.

Stephanie: I, I’m simplifying the story a little bit. Um, but I mean that, that’s sort of the,

Hugo: the red line.

Stephanie: I’ve pieced it together,

um, after sort of living through

it. Um, so, you know, I was sent to a dietitian and I was sent to a few different therapists,

Hugo: But you didn’t want to go though. Like there was a part of you that was like, no, I don’t want to get help.

Stephanie: I don’t, I don’t want to go.

I didn’t know what else to do. And, and I say that because If, if you take someone’s coping strategies away, even if they’re not working in my eating disorder was the way I coped. Um, I didn’t know how else to cope and no one at that point had, had recognized that.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: I’m just going along. Everything

else in my life looked pretty good.

I mean, I was still doing well in school. I was participating. I had friends, I was doing extracurriculars. [00:09:00] Um, But at home, myself, when I sat with myself, I wasn’t doing well.

Hugo: No. At age 22.

Stephanie: a few years and then it really developed also into anxiety and OCD. And it wasn’t until probably about 22, 23.

I mean, I really had that aha moment of no one is going to help me if I don’t help myself. Like, I could, yeah,

Hugo: Okay.

Stephanie: mean, I could,

I could go on like this and sort of function, right? Um, and from the outside it looks okay. Like, I think many people experience with mental health issues,

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: people don’t really recognize

it. Even with an eating disorder, right, they’re, they’re not necessarily recognizing she has a problem.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: I was asked at different points for

diet tips. If that gives you any

Hugo: Huh?

Stephanie: from the outside [00:10:00] had no like

Hugo: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie: itself is very difficult to sort

Hugo: It’s kind of promoted in a way.

Stephanie: Yes, it is. Um, and that’s very difficult as the person suffering, at least I found it difficult.

Like, do I need help or am I being congratulated,

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: at times?

Hugo: Oh, wow.

Stephanie: So around, you know, 22, really, I remember I was, I was in my mom’s kitchen at the time sitting, I was by myself sitting there thinking like, if I, if I don’t try to find some help, this is going to be my life. Yeah. And I didn’t want that. And that, I mean, I’m so grateful that I did not want that because it was so much work and anyone who’s gone through mental health treatment knows like the work really begins when you start to go and participate. It was a lot of work,

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Stephanie: completely worth it.

Changed my life. I would not be here today if it wasn’t for her. Name is Michelle. She has no idea that I’m doing the podcast. I haven’t spoken to her for [00:11:00] years. Um, but this therapist in Illinois who really first session, you know, I sat down and I was telling her my symptoms and she asks, what do I, what do you want to do? What do you want to do with your life? And I said, I want to move to Los Angeles. And she says, okay, and that, like, that seems such a small thing. But for the first time, someone believed in me, like saw me and was like, okay, we can, we can make this work.

Hugo: Wow.

And that was the aha moment.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Hugo: Oh, wow. Oh,

Stephanie: a year plus. Um, and then when I moved back to state by state licenses, um, when I moved to Los Angeles, I couldn’t see her anymore.

Hugo: gee. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie: I, at that

point, I

was ready. I mean, we had, we had pretty much done the work that needed to be done at that point. But that rapport with her, I think, was really [00:12:00] inspiring me, that I, I could do what I felt like I needed to do, which was heal.

Hugo: Wow. There’s, it’s funny that you mentioned this because, um, a couple of times on the podcast now, people have Uh, mentioned this, this, uh, moment, like a sort of like a moment that defines the rest of your life. Um, and for one person, it was, uh, someone else, um, just involuntarily, uh, taking her aside and like, Hey, I can tell that you’re not doing great.

Like even though from the outside, you’re doing great and everything on paper looks perfect, uh, to others. But that person saw her and saw her that she was struggling and took her aside and told her that. Another person was, um, was, uh, going to the gym, uh, getting, you know, doing all ticking all the boxes, you know, working on fitness and cardio, uh, driving a nice car and just couldn’t answer like, why?

Why am I not happy? And that was her moment. [00:13:00] But it’s so, so, so, um, well, so relatable to get to hear all these kind of moments that happen

when you least expect it. And then looking back at your journey, like that’s a single moment that you can pinpoint as in, hey, this is when it all started to change.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Hugo: And so, so powerful.

I don’t know why, but it sort of feels super powerful to, to at least hear that. Um, did you, did you experience it like that at the time?

Stephanie: You know, I’d like to say yes.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie: moment that I finally reached out for help, you know, I think, you know, It was not, you know, people talk about rock bottom. I don’t think it was that for me. There had been, you know, I’d had health issues, um, connected with my eating disorder.

There had been plenty of times where you would think that that would have been the rock bottom. [00:14:00] I think it was more the realization that like, if nothing happens, nothing’s going to happen like this, this is it. And no one else can really do it for me. I have to finally be the one that says like, Hey, I, I need help. And I hadn’t really done that much in that way before.

Hugo: Because you did get help at age 15 when you were struggling with

eating disorders.

Stephanie: Absolutely. And I participated. Um, but I always quit. There was always a reason why it didn’t work. Um, and. I don’t know if it was discouraged or I just felt like, well, this is kind of what I have to do, like to survive. I’m gonna, I’m just going to do what I’m doing because I don’t think that other person across the room gets me or, and I take full accountability for that too. Um, but if you’re not ready, you’re not going to be able to receive the support even if the support isn’t as [00:15:00] specialized.

Hugo: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Stephanie: And for the first time, you know, at that, the kitchen table, I was like, I got to do this for me.

Hugo: yeah,

Stephanie: And also I think I wanted to do it for

me. That’s the other piece. Like I didn’t, I didn’t want to live that way. Like I, I didn’t want to struggle, um, and feel like I was a ghost in my life

Hugo: yeah,

Stephanie: feel like I didn’t have any friends. Even though

I had friends, like I wasn’t really present in relationships. I don’t think I was. I mean. This is a strong statement, but I don’t, I don’t think I was happy at all during that time.

I think I looked happy.

Hugo: oh yeah, yeah, but not authentic, authentically, no.

Stephanie: No.

Hugo: And so, so you mentioned anxiety, OCD, uh, eating disorders, like those three things, those were the kind of the things that you, that you struggled with, and that all, well, You could say that all came as a result of what happened at age nine. And you simplified it, of course.

And then [00:16:00] at age 22, you were like, all right, I need to work on this. I need to unpeel that onion

and get to the core of things. So, uh, Oh yeah. So why Los Angeles? Oh yeah.

Stephanie: will just be a, a side note. Um, when I was small, so 6, 7,

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: we went to Los Angeles

to, uh,

Hugo: Disneyland. Oh, visit family.

Stephanie: to Dis, he actually

did take me to

Disneyland, I will say. Um, and I got a princess hat and I thought I was just having the time of my life and I was.

Hugo: Okay.

Stephanie: Um, and my

uncle at the time worked for Universal Studios.

Um, it’s

Hugo: Uh,

Stephanie: Disneyland, only it’s the, it’s

Hugo: the, real thing.

Stephanie: Uh,

Hugo: park. Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie: yeah, he worked for The, theme park. and he is a stuntman. Um, so he at the time was doing a show where, um, it was called the Wild Wild West Show. I don’t think it’s in existence [00:17:00] anymore. And he would fall off horses and fall off buildings.

And

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Stephanie: he was the coolest person.

He still is the

Hugo: Obviously. yeah.

Stephanie: If he’s listening, he still is. Um, but I, I to live where he lived. I thought that was the coolest place to be.

Hugo: yeah.

Stephanie: I thought that was the coolest job. Now I will say I’ve never pursued being a stunt woman. Um, but I, I just. You know, I was out there one time and I was like, this is, this is where I want to live.

Hugo: That’s so cool.

Stephanie: so ever since

then, that, that had been my goal in the back of my mind.

Hugo: That’s a really nice side note though. At six years old, you’re like, damn, I need to live. I need to move eventually.

Stephanie: this is, I mean, there was the beach, there was Disneyland, there was universal studios.

Hugo: Yeah. what more do you need?

Stephanie: what Illinois cornfields. I was like, this

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Stephanie: here.

Hugo: Yeah. With the winters, the harsh winters.

Stephanie: exactly. No snow in Los [00:18:00] Angeles.

Hugo: No. Oh wow. Okay. So that a dozen inches. Okay. So that that’s right. And then, um, . Okay. So what happened after that aha moment you made plans to move to la I suppose? Um, what, what, what else happened?

Stephanie: that um, so after that was really when I did, um, kind of my, my, what I would say the bulk of my work in therapy, um, over the next year, that aha moment led to, um, and, and I really did, I didn’t know it at the time. I did a lot of recovery in that year. Um, If I’d know now what I’d know then, um, well, I’m glad I don’t know now what I, what I didn’t know then.

Hugo: Okay. Mm-Hmm,

Stephanie: realize. Statistically how hard it is to recover from an eating disorder and OCD, especially when they’re combined

Hugo: Okay.

Stephanie: So I think

that not knowing that that was really never shared with me [00:19:00]

Hugo: Otherwise, you might have just not tried at all because the statistics are so bad.

Stephanie: Yeah, I think I would have found it really discouraging in such a sort of

delicate place and like accepting help and and for a little while I think even in therapy I Um, and maybe some of your audience has experienced this, you know, I wasn’t very trusting. so, you know, as the therapist, like I got to know her just like she got to know me.

Hugo: Mm-Hmm. Michelle.

Stephanie: as I, yeah,

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: that trust with Michelle, I opened up more and more

and more. Um, but I really went in thinking I want full recovery. Um, I want to, and I know this is not possible now, but at that point I was like, I want it to be like, it never existed. I want to go back to, you know, how I would have basically been if I hadn’t had any of these mental health issues.

Hugo: yeah.

Stephanie: Now that’s not possible,

but also that’s not a bad thing. I don’t look at that as a bad thing now. [00:20:00] Um, that has changed my life and I have done things that I would never do. Probably, I don’t think I’d be a therapist now if I hadn’t had the struggles I’ve had. Um, I don’t think I would be as empathetic and as caring and maybe I would have been, but it’s given me a different perspective on life and what people might be going through that I have no idea.

Hugo: Uhhuh.

Stephanie: And, you know, giving people

the benefit of the doubt. And I really love my work. So, you know, I’m here now, but that, that year, year and a half, I’d have to look back and see how long it was, but I did a lot of work. Um, and I really, you know, I was working part time at the time, but, um, my focus was really my mental health

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: Um, and my family

supported, I was lucky I had family support, um, that really kind of let me focus on that. and supported me through it. Cause I think that is key too. If you have that, I mean, that’s so [00:21:00] valuable.

Hugo: Ah, that’s, that’s cool. Yeah. Um.

Stephanie: And then I moved to Los Angeles.

Hugo: So how long after?

How long after the moment was it

Stephanie: it was quick. I would guess within two years, that’s quick for, in terms of

Hugo: moving your life across the States? Yeah.

Stephanie: yeah. Um, and I really jumped in, you know, it’s, it’s, um, it, it, it’s a little scary to move that distance

Hugo: Mm.

Stephanie: from, your family.

Um, but I really wanted to go and experience that and, and have sort of, know, some life experiences that I wasn’t able to have. When I was struggling so much.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie: will always have a special place in my heart because of that, I think.

Hugo: Yeah. That’s that’s amazing. I do want to ask more about that. But but

Stephanie: Absolutely.

Hugo: mentioned like in a in a year or a year and a half, you did a lot of the work to to [00:22:00] any listeners who are struggling. Or are ready to take that step. Like, what do you mean with work?

Stephanie: Yeah. So in terms of my anxiety, I, I did a lot of things that I was scared of. Um, and if

that makes sense, like a lot of, you know, with OCD, a lot of times it’s about, Um, if you’re familiar with exposure therapy, it’s about doing the things that the anxiety is telling you you should not be doing.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: Um, doing the opposite.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: And I was fully

on board with that. Um, I know that can be a struggle for people because it’s scary. Um, but at that point, you know, I was, I was so kind of geared towards, I just want to, I just want relief, um, from these symptoms. I want

to feel better. That that got me through, you know, challenging the anxiety.

And honestly, I think I found, um, Looking back now, [00:23:00] um, the challenging, the anxiety was probably easier than living with the anxiety.

Hugo: Oh, yeah. Yeah, because, yeah.

Stephanie: anxiety is so hard. Um, with the eating and, and eating disorder, it’s a lot, again, it’s a lot of doing the opposite thing that, that the, you know, is going

Hugo: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie: doing the hard things, eating the food, um, you know, stopping the, if you’re doing any kind of, at that point I was, I was over exercising at times.

I was over exercising. Um, You know, going to the doctor, that was something, you know, getting your labs, that kind of stuff, like making sure, you know, because were a few things that you know, definitely impacted my health. Um, luckily nothing long term, it can for some.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: Um, and it was also really, I think, talking through how I was actually feeling in therapy. That was a big key to, [00:24:00] um, because I like to say for myself and just, you know, as someone who works with eating disorders, it’s about the food, but it’s not about the food.

Hugo: No.

Stephanie: Like, we could talk about an eating disorder all

day, we need to talk about, like, what started

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie: talk about OCD all

day, in terms of, you also want to do exposure therapy, but also, did it, did it have a catalyst here

Hugo: Yeah. Because if that’s not treated, it will come back, I suppose.

Stephanie: it I think it would’ve for me,

Hugo: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie: was, you know, probably grief work that was what, you know, 15 years later, but it was needed, and I was ready.

Hugo: And how, you mentioned the support of your family, how you mentioned that was vital. What did that look like? Like, was your mother who was there for you? Or like a close group of friends?

Stephanie: Yes, it was it was primarily [00:25:00] my, my family. So my, my mother, um, at that point she had gotten remarried. So I had a really, um, supportive stepfather too. Um, you know, they didn’t know anything about eating disorders. They didn’t know anything about OCD. Or anxiety, um, but they were willing to support in whatever way, um, sort of as, as background players, so to speak.

Um, they were never, I never did any kind of, you know, family therapy or anything like that. Um, they would have, if I’d asked them,

Hugo: Oh yeah, yeah.

Stephanie: say that too.

Um, but again, small town Illinois, you know, now I know there are such things as, you know, higher levels of care for eating disorders that was never talked about for me. So, you know, I,

Hugo: You mean like in treatment? Okay, yeah, yeah,

Stephanie: yeah. treatment. That was never something that was brought up to me,

which, looking back,

I, I don’t know why. Um, but [00:26:00] you know, it is what it is, I guess. Um, they were, they were very supportive. Anything that, that I needed, they were there, um, in terms of challenging the anxiety or anything I would need in terms of, you know, um, recovery with eating, they were fully on board.

And I also had, you know, aunts, uncles, um, friends, people that I You know, it’s interesting, friends, I don’t think I relied on friend support as much at that time. Um, you know, some people probably knew what I was going through. I, you know, I definitely confided in a few friends, some didn’t. Um, so I had a few close friends that knew, and I could rely on for support. Um, as much as, you know, someone can support you that also isn’t going through it. Um, but I wasn’t at that point probably telling everyone I knew, and I don’t think that’s uncommon. Um,

Hugo: It’s, it’s, I’m now [00:27:00] just getting a flashback to another episode that I did with

Stephanie: yeah.

Hugo: Sarah was her name and she was struggling with eating disorders. She lived in, I guess, Wisconsin, which borders Illinois, right?

Stephanie: Yes.

Hugo: And she, um, flew to Florida for a six week treatment plan to, to, to, um, help her overcome or live with, uh, eating disorder.

But when when asked, like by her friends, like, Hey, what are you going to do for summer? She was like, I’m going to Florida for for a vacation. She she told her family, but friends was, uh, yeah, the hurdle was too big to tell. But the similarities are there. It’s, um, how? Well, it’s maybe a bit of a weird question, but Would, would you be at the same place right now if it wasn’t for the support of your, like, those around you at the time?

Stephanie: You know, and, [00:28:00] and I want to say , that was really brave of her to accept that help. That’s a, that’s a big deal. Um, don’t know if I would have been at the same place and that’s, that’s on one hand, you know, scary for me to think about all the people who, who are struggling and, you know, Without support, you, you can’t access care, at least in the United States.

It’s, it’s really difficult. Um, just the financial component. I don’t think I could have, I, well, I take that back. I could not have access care if I didn’t have the support of family.

Hugo: Just, just due to the finance, like, the costs, like, the huge, oh, yeah.

Stephanie: And that was, you know, I’m, I’m aging myself here, but this is, you know, 15 years ago. So, um, know, I can’t imagine what what that clinic charges for individual

Hugo: the moment.

Stephanie: now.

Hugo: yeah.

Stephanie: I, I would not

have been able to afford it. Um, so in in that sense alone, [00:29:00] no, I don’t, I don’t think I would be at the same place.

Hugo: Yeah,

Stephanie: and I’m not sure if

I would have, um, kind of gotten to where I’ve got to in order to accept care without family.

Hugo: yeah.

Stephanie: they were definitely a motivation

to recover as well.

Um, I think it had to come from me, but if you have people around you that care about you, that’s just adding to the list of reasons to recover.

Hugo: Oh, yeah. Yeah, you don’t just do it for yourself, but also for the people that care about you.

Stephanie: Oh yeah.

Hugo: Yeah,

Stephanie: Especially on the hard days. I mean, those are the

people that are gonna You know, remind you why you’re doing what you’re doing, even when it feels like I just want to quit.

Hugo: yeah.

Oh, wow.

Stephanie: and keeps you going.

Hugo: Yeah, yeah, oh wow, that’s, uh, powerful. And so, okay.

Skip forward to, I don’t know where, but at some point you’re like, Hey, this experience that I’ve gone through, [00:30:00] uh, I’ve seen how much I can improve a person’s life.

I want to do more with that. I’m sort of filling in the blanks here, but

you’re now a therapist, which is the full circle thing that I referred to at the start. Um, yeah. How did that come to happen?

Stephanie: You know, I was really, um, kind of trying to figure out what I, what I wanted to do long term.

Hugo: Mm hmm.

Stephanie: already in Los Angeles,

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: and

Hugo: 20, age 24, if I do my maths right.

Stephanie: later, so I, you know, I was really living there.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: but un what I,

what I wanted to and someone, you know, her a mentor at the time, you might look into and she g ideas.

You know,

Hugo: hmm.

Stephanie: might

Hugo: women. Mm hmm. [00:31:00] Mm

Stephanie: Um, but that would have been fun though. That would have been a different career shift. Uh, but you know, she mentioned you might wanna look at, at being a therapist like you, you’d, you’d be a good therapist. honestly, it was not on my radar, I will say that.

Um, so I know some people are like, I wanna do that. And, you know, for as long as I can remember, it was not on my radar. And she, she suggested a school, um, she’s, I think she suggested a couple schools and I did a little research and, um, there’s a school called Antioch University in Culver City. suburb of Los Angeles.

Hugo: hmm.

Stephanie: there for the information session and I did not know master’s programs like that existed. Um, they, their program is small classes. When I say small, I don’t know if I ever had a class over 20

Hugo: Okay.

Stephanie: smallest class I ever had was four.

Hugo: [00:32:00] Yeah.

Stephanie: Um, And I actually

did a independent study at one point, so I had a one on one, um, uh, teacher as well.

It was very specialized, um, and it was all experiential. So, didn’t have grades, although I will say to pass a master’s class, you have to have an A or B.

Hugo: Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie: but I didn’t get

grades, I got written evaluations. Um, every class had to do with you. Um, you used your own material in preparation for being a therapist.

I think that was the thinking. Um, and I, I agree with it. Um, but it was completely different than all the other schools that I had known about in terms of they were doing lectures. They were teaching theory. Um, and that’s a wonderful thing. But I was looking for something that I think,

Hugo: A bit more progressive.

Stephanie: Yeah. Um, more of an experience at that point. I, you know, if I was going to, to be a therapist and I remember writing my [00:33:00] entrance essays, Um, you know, I wanted to, to fully sort of own, you know, I, I’ve gone through an eating disorder, OCD. Um, you know, I want to go into the field to work with, with those issues in addition to other things. Um, I think I’d have to look back probably between the time that it was suggested to me and I enrolled, it was probably less than six months.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: looked back.

Hugo: You were doing other, like you were in another career

trajectory at that point.

Stephanie: I thought I

was. Yes. I wasn’t, you know, I was really kind of trying to still figure it out. Um, but I had what I

thought was other plans. And then when this came along, um,

Hugo: it, just clicked. Wow, yeah,

Stephanie: aha moments when I was at the orientation, um, to see if I wanted to enroll at that point.

I was [00:34:00] like, I’m going to enroll. And no one questioned it. No family supportive.

Hugo: yeah, okay,

Stephanie: and I had

some wonderful experiences while I was there. I got to go to France and study Buddhism. I got to go to Brazil and study spirituality and medicine. Um, my specialization was spiritual and depth therapy. Um, was when I knew I always wanted to go into private practice. That, that I will say, like when I, when I really thought about what I could see myself doing, it was private practice, individual therapy, longterm.

Hugo: yeah,

Stephanie: course, to get there,

you do a lot of other things to get the experience. but that probably, I think Antioch was probably one of the most formative experiences of my life

Hugo: wow,

Stephanie: that really did, um, take all of my own recovery. And turn it into, um, and sort of turn me into the therapist I am today. But it’s [00:35:00] also, I won’t lie, it’s benefited me personally a lot too. Um, if I could stay at that master’s program and, and learn, know, for years and years and years, I would.

Hugo: yeah, yeah, it actually sounds really awesome. To be able to not just learn and become wiser, but also to apply it on, on, on yourself in a way.

Stephanie: absolutely.

Hugo: like usually the college experience is just, you know, like tired listening to some professor slide through hundreds of sheets and hoping to at least store 10 percent of that in your memory.

Your experience

sounds so much better.

Stephanie: It I’ll be honest. It was so, I mean, you got to know the people that you were in the classes with. Um, you know, what, what better way to practice being a therapist than actually talking and, you know, um, at some points talking through your own things. But the testing has its [00:36:00] place, but. You know, honestly, when I work now, it, you know, my ability to take a test really doesn’t apply. Um, so it was a, it’s a really wonderful program and I’d recommend if anybody’s in Los Angeles and thinking about a therapist, I’d, I’d recommend

Hugo: go

grab a flyer and see what it.

Stephanie: go grab, go grab a flyer in an info session.

Hugo: Yeah, cool. And so, um, you go through the master’s program and then now you have your private, private practice where you get to talk, connect to people one on one, and take them through their, their own struggles.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. I um, I think Los Angeles was a great place also to learn to be a therapist. I, you know, I, I, for the first time, I didn’t go into eating disorder treatment, but I worked in eating disorder treatment. Um, you know, so you talk about full circle, those experiences that, you know, as someone who, who has struggled, um, and then is [00:37:00] in the position of helping other people who, who are currently struggling, that was pretty

Hugo: Wow.

Stephanie: Um,

Hugo: so at age 15, you didn’t get into eating disorder therapy. It was just general therapy.

Stephanie: Yeah, it was

Hugo: okay.

Stephanie: and I will say it was

never suggested by any doctor, um, any therapist, um, you know, access to care. I’d have to probably look back and see what was happening at the time, you know, nationwide,

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: to care, it

just wasn’t anything that was brought up.

Hugo: no.

Stephanie: Unfortunately, I don’t know if that would have done, who knows, that’s, that’s sort of where I land.

I

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Stephanie: that would have changed my

trajectory or not.

Hugo: yeah.

Stephanie: but, but it has informed sort of my view of access to care. Affordable care is so important for people. There are a lot of people who want help that can’t access it.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: Um, or don’t even know it exists. [00:38:00] Um,

yeah,

Hugo: either of those things. Yeah.

Stephanie: Yeah.

And, and, you know, social media, I know gets, gets talked about in both ways. It’s good for our mental health or bad for our mental health. Um, I don’t think it’s good or bad. but I do think it can, you know, open up a world where people can access information, uh, including accessing information about mental health in their own home.

They’re not, you know, announcing it to everyone.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: they can if they want

to, but some people don’t want to. So, you know, finding the information online and then saying like, Hey, I, I, I have that same symptom, you know, just like you doing this podcast, right? Somebody might be listening now thinking like.

Oh my gosh, I was struggling with that and I didn’t even know.

Hugo: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, that’s the idea. But those moments, like I can relate to that as well. Like the reason why I started the tracking happiness, you know, the website and now the podcast, it all started with. Me just browsing some [00:39:00] forum, some Reddit threat probably,

Stephanie: Yep.

Hugo: and something clicked and I cannot pinpoint that exact moment, but at least like, it, it, it, there was some curiosity that I followed and uh, like

one thing led to another and that’s kind of the thing that I’m hoping the podcast does as well, does as well.

Like, just hoping to make a connection with someone out there. Hopefully

that’s like, hey.

Stephanie: Absolutely.

Hugo: this, story, I can relate to that. And let me see if I can just follow in that person’s footsteps.

Stephanie: That’s a powerful thing.

Hugo: Yeah, yeah, I hope it is.

Stephanie: Mmhmm.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: is. It is.

Hugo: And so, so now you, you are the Michelle to other people.

Stephanie: You know what? If I’m half Michelle, I think that’s a, Um, I try to

be, I try to be, you know, we’re, we’re all human and we all have, you know, days where, you know, we’re, we’re doing 100 percent and then we have other days where [00:40:00] 100 percent is a little different.

Hugo: yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stephanie: but I I really do try. I love what I do. Um, I won’t, it’s sometimes on an easy job.

I don’t think any easy job or any job is easy, but I really do love what I do.

Hugo: Yeah, that’s that’s so great. Do you think that you well, I think you mentioned it at start, but how big are the odds that you were that you landed in this position? Had it not been for your journey?

Stephanie: You know, I off the top of my head, this is how probably I don’t,

Hugo: Stupid speculative question. Yeah.

Stephanie: was going to say I don’t like the statistic.

because I’ve forgotten the statistic. It was probably, you know, 30 percent chance. Um, but. You know, that’s also given me the, um, kind of perspective of, you know, you maybe some, some outlooks for different diagnoses online. It doesn’t mean it’s you.

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Stephanie: and I think if I were to say,

you know, what was, what was a key to [00:41:00] me getting to where I am today, was believing that I could,

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: that’s big.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: Um, believing that it could be better,

believing that I could feel happiness, believing that like a birthday cake didn’t have to scare me. You can buy a birthday cake whenever you want to, by the way,

Hugo: You don’t have to be.

Stephanie: no, you can just go, to and I’ve done this many times. Because now that, that I am where I am, I’m like, I’m gonna live my life. Um, and you can just buy a birthday cake on a Tuesday.

Hugo: don’t check your ID.

Stephanie: No, they

Hugo: Oh, wow.

Stephanie: So, and it’s fun.

Hugo: I guess it is, yeah. Oh, wow.

I didn’t know that.

Stephanie: Go do it. It’s fun. Mm

Hugo: aside. To a person who’s out there listening this and thinking like, Oh, I don’t know if I can, if I can do that. Um, What would you say to those?

Stephanie: I would say don’t, don’t worry about if you can or not. Do the next thing in [00:42:00] front of you. You don’t have to worry about what’s going to happen in the future, do the next thing. The next thing for me when I was sitting at that kitchen table was making a phone call and making an appointment. I didn’t know it was going to be Michelle.

I called a clinic and I, you know, I asked for the first person available. Um, I just knew that I couldn’t do what I was doing.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: if you have that feeling, do the

next thing.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: Because the next thing leads to the next thing.

Hugo: That’s wonderful.

Stephanie: my goal, you

know, I talk about like wanting to move to Los Angeles or, you know, I really, in my mind, I wanted whatever full recovery was, but the goal can, can change, so to speak.

You

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Stephanie: that out

Hugo: yeah.

Stephanie: Um, you know,

what I envisioned is full recovery. And this isn’t a bad thing is not the version exactly that it is now. That’s okay. But if I had worried about, well, do I want to recover forever? That first step I would never would have taken.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: [00:43:00] do, just

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: thing.

Hugo: Yeah. Oh wow. It’s like, uh, there’s a saying,

and I’m gonna mess this up. But,

Stephanie: That’s okay.

Hugo: and I don’t even know it, but it has something to do with a sailing ship. And if you’re on a boat, you can only turn, you can only go left or right if you’ve got speed. Without speed, you’re, you’re stairless. Um, and so the, the big, the bigger picture is that, um, whatever you do, as long as you move in some direction, you’re at least moving and that allows you to steer.

If you’re not moving at all, you can’t do anything. So what you need to do first is just move in any direction and correct from there.

Stephanie: I think it’s a wonderful analogy. Absolutely. Just do something.

Hugo: There are somewhere there is a better version of that. Something that is more elegant than what I did just there.

Stephanie: I think this works.

Hugo: I hope so. Um, yeah. Okay. [00:44:00] So, wow. It’s such a wonderful story to go full circle here and to have you here on the show. Um, I knew from the start that this was going to be one of those stories.

And I really, really, really like it. Um, If someone’s listening and want to contact you, you’re not in L. A. anymore. You’re now in Florida, but luckily you do telehealth. So

Stephanie: Online,

Hugo: exactly. So if they do want to reach out to you, where can they do that?

Stephanie: you know, the easiest thing is probably my website and I will just remind unfortunately or fortunately right now. Right. But I think it’s more, unfortunately, I can only work with, with people listening from California or Florida,

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: um, in the United States,

but you can go to my website. Um, it’s my name. So Stephanie Gilbert MFT. and the MFT is marriage and family therapist. Um, if you need to kind of know why the acronym is there,

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: um, and my email

address is there. Um, [00:45:00] you feel free to contact me. I’m happy to set up consultations. Um, you know, go from there.

Hugo: Yeah.

Stephanie: And I want to say thank you for doing

this, this podcast. You know, we talk a lot about mental health as professionals, but very rarely do we get the opportunity or do I get the opportunity to share kind of why I got here. Um, and I think it’s a really powerful thing that you’re doing this, um, because it’s needed and people get to relate to hopefully one another. Um, and I think that’s an opportunity to heal no matter what.

Hugo: Thanks. I really, well,

so much for that. Yeah.

Um, yeah, I think that wraps it up really, really nicely. We’ve come full circle. I want to thank you again for sharing your story. And to any listeners who are wanting to reach out or read more about you, everything is in the show notes below. Well, I always end the podcast with a silly question.

I’ve got [00:46:00] two questions actually. Oh, wow.

Stephanie: Okay.

Hugo: One is, and this is the least silly question, is, it’s currently 1 p. m. in Florida.

1 p. m., 2 p. m. ish? 3 p. m.

Stephanie: m. now. Mm hmm.

Hugo: Um, how’s the weather?

Stephanie: It’s hot and humid and it thunderstorms about. We’ve missed it, so I’m glad for my internet connection. Um, but I think it’s gonna thunderstorm again later this afternoon.

Hugo: Okay. So you’re not going out for a walk.

Stephanie: Florida.

Hugo: Okay.

All right. Well, usually

Stephanie: What, time is it?

Hugo: it’s,

Stephanie: what time is

it where you

Hugo: it’s, just

about 9 p. m. right now and there’s no thunderstorm, but it’s also hot and humid right here.

Stephanie: Okay.

Hugo: Yeah. not quite.

Stephanie: out for a

walk either.

Hugo: No, no, not quite as hot as in Florida. I assume. Uh, second question. And this is the most insane question, but I’m, I’m doing an outro or no, sorry.

I’m doing an intro for the tracking happiness podcast where [00:47:00] I asked guests to say, welcome to the tracking happiness podcast. And then I’m going to I’m going to merge all these, these voices together and that becomes one beautiful intro, or at least that’s what I’ve got in mind.

Stephanie: I love that.

Hugo: kind of works as an outro too, because usually these were really awkward outros where I just didn’t know what to say.

Well, at least now I know what to say. It’s still awkward, but it’s, it’s kind of funny, I think. So if you would, would you say welcome to the tracking happiest podcast with me on three?

Stephanie: Sure.

Hugo: Alright, one, two, three. Welcome to the Trucking Happiness Podcast.

Stephanie: podcast.

Hugo: Great. To me, that didn’t sound in sync, but I like it.

Stephanie: I’m not sure if it was in sync. We tried.

Hugo: Perfect does not exist and it’s pointless to try to be perfect.

Stephanie: Exactly, exactly.

Hugo: Well, all right, um, I’ll let you go. Thanks again so much. And, um, oh yeah, maybe, uh, in the future we, uh, [00:48:00] we might speak again. Maybe our paths will cross again.

Stephanie: that. Absolutely. Thank you and have a good evening.

Hugo: you too.

Well, there you have it. That was another episode of the Tracking Happiness podcast. Now, if you liked this episode, please leave a review of this podcast on the platform you’re listening to. It will really help me share these stories with more people. If you didn’t like this episode, yeah, just disregard all that.

If you want to learn more about my guest, do check out any links in the notes below. Or if you want to be a guest on the podcast, please go to trackinghappiness. com slash share your story. And before you know it, you will help others overcome their own struggles of mental health. Lastly, I hope you have a great day wherever you are.

See you in the next one. Bye bye.