Episode #16: Marci Rossi

Hugo: [00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the tracking happiness podcast, a show about overcoming mental health issues, or at least learning to live with them. Um, and today I’m here with Marci Rossi. Am I pronouncing it right?

Marci: That’s right?

Marci Rossi.

Hugo: How, uh, thanks for being here.

I always, well, uh, you’re from the United States.

I know. Uh, we’ll get to that later, but always you guys have so many different kinds of last names. Uh, so your last name is Italian, I suppose.

Marci: Correct. Yeah,

Hugo: But I’m always like, is it, do you pronounce it in the European way or is it like there’s, there’s a special way to pronounce it? I never know.

Marci: this is definitely the American name. It should be Rossi, but Marci Rossi just rolls off the tongue better.

Hugo: And then with the fingers, you know,

we’ll see.

Marci: you have to, their, their hand gestures come along

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: can’t

see that on the podcast.

Hugo: are you, are you like, uh, how far away from Italy are you like from your, I don’t know, your parents or grandparents?

Marci: Yeah. Grandparents. Um, and [00:01:00] then my dad’s brothers and brother and sister were born in Italy. So he was, they moved to Canada first actually. And so he was the first child there born in Canada instead of Italy.

Hugo: Ah, okay. Ah, cool. So, so your grandmother is Canadian then?

Marci: Well, they, so they got naturalized. Both of my grandmother and grandfather, um, originally from Italy. And so they got naturalized, uh, in, in Canada. And I actually am Canadian myself. I was born

Hugo: Ah,

Marci: and moved to the States when I was about three or so.

Hugo: okay. Yeah, cool. Yeah. I always like hearing about these. Well, this is not about mental health, obviously, but I always like you guys in the States or North America. You guys move around so much.

Marci: Yes.

Hugo: Like for you guys, it’s no, it’s just, you’re, you’re weird practically if you haven’t moved across the, across the States.

Yeah.

Marci: you know, my husband is Swiss and, um, so he still has friends that he knew from elementary school or from the street, you know, where he was growing up, the streets where he was growing up.

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: you know,

like you mentioned here, it’s very [00:02:00] common to go away for college and to kind of move for jobs and you’re really kind of separated from family a lot. So it’s very, it’s very different for me. I don’t still have those connections with my childhood friends. And it’s just funny to me that he’s still friends with the same people he was when he was, you know, six years old playing hockey on the street sort of thing.

Hugo: Same for me. Yeah. Um, like, like you guys, for you guys, it’s normal if you live in California to just go to New York to study for a year or two. Uh, if I would do that, like distance wise, that would be me going to Russia to study. It’s so weird. Um, anyway. Yeah. Um, well, we got to know each other already quite a bit, but just for our listeners, uh, Marci, who are you?

What do you do? Um, where are you from? And how are you doing?

Marci: Oh, great. So I am Marci Rossi. I am a success coach. Um, what I, I kind of dig two different areas for that. I focus on two different aspects. One is really tied to my own personal story, which I’m sure we’ll dive into, and that is helping women [00:03:00] overcome, um, or change their relationship with alcohol. And then the other part now is.

In doing that, I’ve created my own business and I’ve just become so passionate about business that I’m now, uh, helping small business owners really take their, their business from the ground up. So in both of those areas, I think that the tie there is that success that I, you know, you just don’t even realize what’s possible when you kind of remove that, that alcohol piece. But yeah, now I’m, now I’m living in the Dallas area with my Swiss husband and our two, you know, foster dogs

Hugo: Oh, wow.

Marci: just, just loving it. So,

Hugo: That’s awesome. Wow. Um, yeah. So about your story, we’re going to get to that later, but two

adoption dogs.

Marci: yes,

Hugo: I have an adoption dog. That’s the dog that I was referring to. She’s right now. She’s busy chewing something and I hope it lasts until the podcast. Usually it does. But man, man, man, adopting a dog is

Marci: Yeah.

Hugo: pretty tough.

So you, you, you have two of them at the same time. Yeah.

Marci: I have two and one. So one is actually from Spain.

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Marci: um, when we were living [00:04:00] in Switzerland

Hugo: So international.

Marci: yeah, it’s a very diverse population here in my house. Uh, yeah. Switzerland doesn’t really have homeless people. Dogs. And so they pulled them in from other European countries and, and fostered ’em out.

So he’s actually from Spain. Our other dog we got here in Texas, she was already five years old or so when we adopted her. And you can tell she’s had a hard life because if you, you know, come at her, she gets, she gets very scared for the first year she wouldn’t play with toys. And now the second that you get on a phone call, that’s when she needs to grab her squeaky toy.

So we’ve locked her in the other room. Hopefully you don’t hear her either. But yeah, those are my two, those are our fur

babies.

Hugo: If we do, then I’ll be glad because then it’s not for once. It’s not my dog. That’s that’s interrupting. Oh, yeah, exactly. They just want to don’t want to feel left out. Yeah.

Marci: sure.

Hugo: All right. So Dallas, Texas. Um, what’s the weather like in Texas right now?

Marci: Hot. It is 105 degrees Fahrenheit just about every day. Uh, it hits 90 already by about [00:05:00] 8, 9 in the morning.

Hugo: Uh,

Marci: stay like this probably through the rest of the month. The, The, benefit though is we have a, we have a really intense summer, but we have long fall. So,

Hugo: Hmm.

Marci: not gonna have

snow. We might have snow maybe in January and February, and it’s for like, you know, Max a week, and it’s not even snow. It’s ice. It’s just that tiniest little layer, right?

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: the most we can

claim. So, I am very much looking forward to the ending of summer. I’m a big fall girl. I’ve already, you know, started planning my Halloween decorations.

And so, um, yeah, you’re kind of, you’re kind of trapped in your house at this point. You can’t really go anywhere when it’s

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Marci: You’re just looking at this beautiful, you know, bright, sunny day, and you’re like, Yeah, I can’t do it. It’s way too hot.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Um, okay. Halloween. That’s, that’s a big thing. Well, I don’t want to dive too much in the, like, I consider these the off topic questions, but I kind of like it. I always,

I always get lost in these questions.

Marci: anything. I can talk about Halloween all day long.

Hugo: Well, that’s, that’s in [00:06:00] October, right? That’s,

Marci: It

is

Hugo: uh. Yeah, so around the time this podcast gets released perhaps, but then if you’re listening to this, then imagine Marci wearing a costume, I assume.

Marci: Oh, for sure. For sure. Yeah. We, uh, we don’t, we, we like now to kind of hand out candy. We want to be the house that’s known for the big candy

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Marci: you’re a

kid, everybody hands out those little tiny candies. And so when a house had like a full size candy bar, like that was, that was the cool house to go to.

So we want to be the cool house on the street. And that means we ended up buying a lot of candy. And then when the kids don’t inevitably come, we end up eating a lot of candy. So it’s just win win.

Hugo: That’s such a great culture. Um, yeah. Um, all right. Um, first real question now.

Marci: I’m ready.

Hugo: Yeah. So, so you’re sorry. Um, yeah. Why don’t you just take us through it? Like where, where did it start?

Marci: Yeah, great question. So I was really kind of a high achiever as a kid. I did really well academically. So school came very naturally to me. [00:07:00] Sports did not. So I stuck in my lane, but school was was really easy and I did really well. And so from there I got into some really good universities. I went to business school and graduated with honors. I then went to law school and I’m actually a licensed attorney in Texas. Um, but I am not allowed to give legal advice at the moment. I’m non practicing. And then from there I went to EY, which is one of the big, uh, big four accounting firms. work and through all of this, you know, I was really driven by achievement and goals and, and working really hard and, and really that kind of prestige that comes with, you know, a fancy title and a fancy salary.

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: But it

was, it was stressful and it wasn’t kind of passion driven. It wasn’t, I wasn’t doing it because it was really what I felt like I was meant to do. It was, again, chasing that, that title and that that salary.

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: And so, the midst of that, I would drink to cope with the stress of the job, the stress of honestly knowing that these weren’t the right paths [00:08:00] for me, like something always felt off, but I didn’t know what that correct path was. So, I would drink, and I would say, honestly, in a lot of these kind of high pressure, uh, Drinking is quite common, like, you know, in law school, every party is drinking your, you’re drinking all of the time. Um, uh, lawyers and doctors in particular have very high rates of alcohol abuse because for a lot of those people, they’re kind of compensating for the stress of their position.

Hugo: No.

Marci: So I

didn’t really feel like I was. Abnormal, right? I wasn’t, I never got arrested. I wasn’t having trouble with my family friends. I’ve never lost my job. Like everything was going really well. Actually, in all my jobs, I, you know, I was getting promoted quite quickly than my last position. I was promoted five times in five years.

So everything from the outside

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: normal.

Hugo: Really successful actually.

Marci: Yeah, you know, on paper, I was definitely successful

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: Um, but at home I was struggling. It was really hard to, you know, Say no to that drink at night, you know That was kind of the routine as you come home [00:09:00] You have a glass of wine and at the same time it didn’t really vibe with my values one of which is health You know, I’m reading all kinds of books about the latest Antioxidant this and in superfood that and really trying to take care of myself and yet I was drinking something that I knew wasn’t good for me So I decided to try a dry January one year and I made it maybe like 27, 28 days. But one of those days, um, you know, it was a friend’s birthday. And one of those days was like a really hard day at work. So they just didn’t count. And I just kind of made excuses for it. And then I tried to dry January, um, every year after that really trying to go a whole month of January without drinking. And only one of those times was I able to go all 31 days, but I was miserable. I was thinking about drinking every single day. I was craving it. I was counting down until February 1st and planning that first drink I was going to have. And that to me signaled that I had a problem that I had, you know, an addiction to this, that I wasn’t functioning at my best because I was thinking about alcohol and planning that next [00:10:00] drink.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah.

Marci: from there, then I decided like I knew there was a problem and yet I didn’t know how to get help. There’s, there’s a lot of options out there and none of them were appealing to me. I didn’t need to go to rehab, right? Like I had just done 31 days without drinking. Obviously I could do it. It just wasn’t very fun for me. And, uh, the 12 step programs didn’t really, I, you know, I wasn’t gonna like let go and let God and just kind of hold it up like I’m a person that goes after things. I want to do it. I want to be the person that’s making the change and not just allow things to happen. So that didn’t settle with me

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: Um, not that both of those aren’t great programs for the people that it works for, but it just they weren’t my path. And so I actually stumbled on a coaching program. I didn’t really realize coaching existed outside of like the sports world. And that is really what helped me change my beliefs around alcohol.

And it was so transformational for me that like within three months of joining this program, I was like, that’s it. I’m going to be quitting my job. I’m going to start, I’m going to be a coach myself. I just, it really was just really eyeopening for me as a [00:11:00] possibility to really change your life. I like every aspect of my life has changed for making this one decision to say, you know what?

I don’t think alcohol is serving me. I don’t like how it has control over me, because I am a control freak. I need to be in charge here. And yeah, just that one decision has really completely changed my life, I would say.

Hugo: Oh, yeah. So how old were you when this all started? Like what you were studying? I assume.

Marci: I mean, I started drinking, well, it depends. So I of started drinking as a teenager, like 16, 17, when you could kind of sneak alcohol from, you know, at parties. The drinking age is 21 here,

so

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: there’s not a

ton of access when you’re a 16 year old, whatever you can, you know, get from your parents closet, I guess. Before that, even, I mean, for Italians, they’ll put, you know, they’ll try to acclimate kids to wine, you know, you might put a little bit of wine in a Sprite to kind of get them built on that taste to get acclimated. there was taste, you know, from when I was a young child. But really, the problem started, I guess, with Honestly, in college, I went to, um, a very heavily Greek [00:12:00] university.

So lots of fraternities and sororities and my university in particular had a lot of money. So there’s already that party culture. And oftentimes money is a, Is a limiting factor in how much people can drink, but that was not a problem for us. So alcohol was everywhere all the time. And so it just kind of became normalized for me, right?

You drink when you’re out at parties. And then each of my careers too, like after work, you go out for drinks or, you know, you’re celebrating all the time. Like drinks were just always

Hugo: Yeah.

Yeah.

Marci: so the really realizing I had a quote unquote problem would have been maybe five years ago. Um, but it, like, it just, it just felt like that’s what we do.

That’s just what. That’s just what adults do,

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: essentially

to cope, um, but I clearly wasn’t coping, so.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. So even though like from the outside you weren’t having issues, like did someone know that you were struggling with alcohol?

Marci: My husband probably had a good idea, but I was Because I was a person who had [00:13:00] always done kind of well in life, well in my career academically, it was really hard for me to accept that this was a piece that I wasn’t in control of, and that I wasn’t You know, quote unquote doing well at so I hit a lot of it. I would buy bottles of vodka and hide them in my dresser drawers and I would open, you know, cans of sparkling water or whatever, and I would top them up with vodka. So it looked like I was drinking a sparkling water, but really I was having a drink.

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: so

I really tried to hide it a lot. I’m sure I’m sure I got sloppy.

I’m sure my husband could notice by the end. You know, when I was drinking, I would turn bright red. Like, my face would just flush, my whole body would flush when I would have any drinks, and that was never something that happened to me before, and that should have also been a cue that like, your body is physically freaking out from this, like, this is obviously not good for me, it’s trying to like, show this bright red sign that this is not the right way to go, and yet I just kind of would, um, Kind of excuse it away that, oh, it’s just this time.

It doesn’t happen every time. It must be that particular brand of vodka or that particular beer or [00:14:00] whatever the thing was. I would excuse it away. So I’m sure it was more obvious than I than I hoped, but I definitely was trying to hide it. I was really embarrassed that this is what I needed to kind of deal with.

Hugo: And so, sorry, that’s my dog barking in the background.

Marci: I don’t hear anything, so you’re good.

Hugo: Just going to mute that out. But yeah, so, so you joined the coaching program. So what happened then? Like, did it danced all start to become clear? Like, Hey, this is absolutely something that I need to need to tackle. Or was that before that, that you realize that already?

Marci: I realized that already. It was, uh, I had mentioned that I had done those dry Januaries, and then by about November of one of those years, the last year, I guess, I found that coaching program and I committed. I was really, like, I got to the point where I just couldn’t do this anymore. I just didn’t want to do it anymore.

I was tired of sneaking around. I was tired of feeling like, you know, just terrible. I just didn’t want to do this anymore. And that’s where I got to the point where I knew I needed help. And I decided to join a coaching program. My intention in joining it was to [00:15:00] get my drinking under control. That is what I wanted.

I was tired of setting rules and breaking those rules.

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: I would say,

okay, I’m only going to drink after 5 PM or only on the weekends or only this, that, and the other, only one drink, whatever it is. And I’d break those rules. And I’m just tired of it. I was tired of beating myself up and waking up every morning.

Like, Oh, never again, like just over it.

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: that, that’s where

that commitment to that program, but I wanted to control alcohol. The. Beauty of that program is what it does is it looks at the beliefs that we have around alcohol and it helps you reframe them. So a lot of the beliefs that we have around alcohol are just patently false,

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: they, it is,

there is no health benefit to drinking. They’re showing more and more studies. The studies that have shown the benefit have some serious flaws and I can, I can dive into all of those. But, um,

Hugo: We can do like a little myth buster section.

Marci: Yeah, for sure. You know, because I know that there are myths out there and the reasons why these myths are perpetuated is just part of human psychology.

But yeah, so part of it was [00:16:00] recognizing that alcohol, some of those are false, right? It doesn’t help you relax. It’s gonna raise cortisol so I can let that belief go. I know it’s not gonna help me relax. So what else do I believe about alcohol? Maybe I think it makes me more confident. Well, if I think it makes more confident, am I saying that I’m less Right.

Isn’t confidence a skill that you build up from practicing something over and over again?

Hugo: Yeah

Marci: You know, if you had to get

up on stage and play an instrument you’ve never played before, you’re not going to feel confident. If you practice that instrument over and over and over again, you will build that confidence to be able to perform.

And that’s that sort of thing. Sort of thing with, with building confidence, especially in. situations,

Hugo: Yeah

Marci: you know,

meeting new people, that sort of thing. So just being able to realize what it was that I thought alcohol was doing for me and understand it wasn’t actually doing any of those things in a positive way that I came to the conclusion that I don’t, I don’t ever want to drink again.

It’s not going to serve me. It’s not going to help me in any way. It’s not adding a net positive to my life. So

Hugo: Yeah,

Marci: originally

to control alcohol was like, I just, I don’t [00:17:00] even need it anymore.

I

Hugo: yeah,

Marci: want it.

So.

Hugo: and and so it was it used to be like a coping mechanism to deal with the stress Like did you replace it with healthier coping mechanisms?

Marci: Um, so it’s twofold. It was coping with the stress and also coping with, um, depression. I’ve had several bouts of severe depression in my life, one of which I was hospitalized for. And knew the thing was, I knew alcohol wasn’t helping. Like, I’ve read enough studies to know that alcohol is not a good antidepressant.

Like it is a depressant, right? So,

Hugo: yeah

Marci: I knew

it wasn’t making sense, but I didn’t have those other strategies in place. Since then, I have developed some other strategies, including honestly just allowing the feeling, knowing that if I, you know, the only way to get through it is to really just feel that feeling. And the other side of it is that I didn’t realize that I was compounding the problem, right? So I talked about how alcohol does not relieve anxiety. It does not relieve stress. It builds up cortisol and adrenaline in your body. And people that drink regularly have higher base levels of [00:18:00] cortisol in their body.

So everything feels already more stressful than it would

Hugo: Yeah

Marci: you know,

someone who isn’t drinking. So by letting alcohol go, I wasn’t having as many of those, like, oh my god, overwhelming anxiety attack types of things. Like, I used to get to the point sometimes with my anxiety. where I would like literally want to hide under my desk.

I couldn’t check emails. I couldn’t answer the phone. My husband would have to screen everything for me. I don’t even know what I was scared of. It just felt too big and too overwhelming. I haven’t had that since I quit drinking about 18 months ago. Um, so I think the need for coping mechanisms has really gone down because I’m not to the stress and and frustration and whatever in my body by literally drinking poison.

So

Hugo: So I like like you had a stressful life you you know, your job was stressful Like, you know, like you said most people in that field um like we’re more inclined to alcoholism. Um, but if you would divide it [00:19:00] up into percentages, like how much of your stress was actually caused by the alcohol, like, like by the coping mechanism itself or by the actual source of the stress, which would be your job, your, your, your life, the pressure of your, your, your work.

Yeah.

Marci: think it’s hard really to divide it up Um, it could the top my head said 50 50 and the reason i’m saying this is because let’s say this So one of the sources my stress first we’re looking at a job specifically, part of it is the actual job, the amount of things that you have to do, right? If you’re an auditor and it’s busy season, you’re going to be working 80 hour weeks minimum,

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Marci: is in itself stressful. Um, on top of that, I knew that there wasn’t that right fit. So I also felt that stress in being in a job that I wasn’t passionate about, right? I might

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Marci: 80 hours weeks like now as a small business owner. I don’t, I mean, weekends I’m still working because I love

it

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: about

it.

It’s problem solving that [00:20:00] sort of thing. I did not love auditing, right? So that is, that is itself a stressor now. So we have those two things. Then alcohol is the coping mechanism. The reason I say it’s kind of 50 50 is because alcohol is preventing me from taking action on those things. Right.

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: If I,

feel that this is not the right job, I can go home and numb myself to the fact that I feel this is not the right job or that I don’t like working 80 hours a week instead of doing something about it, instead of saying I’m not willing to accept it. And that’s one of the biggest kind of changes in, in not drinking to cope is that you’re actually able to take action. On those things that are adding stress to your life, right? Some stressors can’t be can’t be worked on, right? If a stress is like a physical ailment that you are a family member has stopping drinking is not going to get rid of someone’s cancer or, you know, disease or whatever, but it’s going to allow you to process those emotions so that you’re not constantly shoving it down and that you’re not adding more stress to that to that [00:21:00] area.

You might not be able to do anything about it, but it’s definitely not going to help. add more stress and cortisol to that situation. So yeah, I would say probably 50 50 because that alcohol was reinforcing that stress. It was keeping me from taking any positive action because I didn’t need to. I’ll just drink and pretend that it’s not happening sort of

thing.

Hugo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, so, uh, you mentioned, like, the realization that, hey, everything that I, that, that society thinks about alcohol is just dead wrong. Uh, that was one of the things that helped you, uh, you know, say no to alcohol in the future. Were there any other things that helped you, uh, well, get off of alcohol?

Marci: it was really, it was really belief work. I think that there’s different approaches out there. Some of those approaches focus on behavior. And I’ve heard people to some of the clients that I’ve worked with, you know, just saying if I could just make it 21 days or 60 days or whatever the belief of a certain amount of days is how you break a habit. The drinking Honestly, [00:22:00] drinking isn’t really a habit. It is our way of trying to meet needs, right? So that is what I thought alcohol was doing. I thought it was meeting my need to relax. I thought it was meeting my need to socialize because it made me feel more confident. I thought it was how you had fun.

I thought it’s how you feel sophisticated, like all of these beliefs that I had. So when I took each of those and really put them under the microscope to say, is this true? Is it scientifically true? And if I can’t answer that question, yes or no, then what is. Like, what is this belief doing to me? How is this belief shaping my behavior?

And is there another belief that’s gonna get me the behavior that I want? So I did not focus on behavior. I don’t work with clients to focus on behavior first, because when you look at the reasons that you that you Drink the benefits that you have the benefits you believe alcohol has and you dispel those there is no more desire I don’t have to count days or worry about drinking I can tell you right now that I’ve had a Gigantic bottle of gin on my bar that I pass every single [00:23:00] day and there is absolutely no desire for it Like it’s been there since the day that I quit drinking and I just don’t want it and I don’t have to tell myself not to do it to drink it.

I don’t have to kind of think and pause and oh, should I, shouldn’t I? There’s no desire there because I wasn’t focusing on the behavior. I was focusing on why I was doing that behavior, like what beliefs were leading me to think alcohol is going to help this situation.

Hugo: Yeah, so you, you sound like a very strong minded person.

Um,

Marci: am. I yeah, I am. And that’s actually part of the thing. I reason I think people get into the trap because if you think about most people’s first drink with alcohol, it’s not, it’s not a tasty.

Hugo: it’s gross.

Marci: beverage. I mean, it’s really, it’s not good.

Hugo: My first beer was like, why do I need to drink this? Like social, social pressure, you know, it wasn’t nice.

Marci: You know, it’s like a, it’s like a sign of strength of, oh, you can drink

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Marci: oh, I

like, I’m a powerful kind of person.

I can drink, you know, 10 beers or whatever. And it’s, it’s really funny because our body is right [00:24:00] there telling us like, hey, this isn’t good for you. Like this is, this is, there’s a reason that this doesn’t taste good. It’s to tell you to not do it. But because it doesn’t taste good. We have to build up that.

No, I’m just going to keep doing it

anyway. Right. And so that

willpower could keep you actually doing it. That strong, that strong willed person is, it can actually keep you drinking even longer, right? When you’ve had

situations, I’m sure a lot of people have had, Nights that they don’t remember, or they’ve done something that they regret, or they’ve said something that they regret.

Even, you know, there’s there’s a scale, but even the people that don’t drink that often still have had some moments where they did something or said something they wish they hadn’t and to persist in space that to say, I’m going to keep doing it anyway. I’m going to keep drinking. I’m going to whatever. I think that takes a really strong willed person to keep going in spite of all the times where you’re like, this isn’t serving me.

You’re like, no, that’s it. I’m going to keep going. So yeah, I can actually keep you in that trap when you’re when you’re that strong willed person of I’m going to take charge. I’ve got this. I’m in control. Like it can be really hard to dispel that.

Hugo: That’s a great perspective. Yeah. I never thought of [00:25:00] it that way. Like, um, being, being strong, strong minded and, you know, persistent, it’s usually a great skill to have like great character traits, but you’re saying like, it might even make you a better alcoholic.

Marci: Absolutely. Yeah, I think people, there’s a, that the belief that people, you just need more willpower, right? They, you assume that someone who’s drinking is weak willed because you can see like, you know, it’s hurting your job. You’re getting in trouble. Your family wants you to stop. Whatever the reason is, you know, if you just had more willpower, if you could just say no, but it’s not a matter of willpower.

It’s a matter of letting go of the beliefs that you think that alcohol is benefiting you in some way. So yeah, I think that’s a common misconception that. People that have a drinking problem, or really any kind of drug problem, are lacking willpower. And I would actually argue that willpower is going to keep you in that trap because you just keep doing it despite all the ways it’s showing up negatively in your life.

Hugo: And so, uh, like a year or I don’t know what the timeline here, but a couple of years ago you joined the coaching program. Yeah. And you’re like, alright, [00:26:00] wow, this is, this is like the silver bullet, this is perfect. Can you, what, what was that like?

Marci: Yeah, I, so it was January 1st, 2023, is the first day of the program that I was in, which I think is just a, just a lovely metaphor of starting the new year off right.

The program, Takes the approach that I do, which is focusing on the beliefs and not the behavior. So the program doesn’t ask you to stop drinking on day one.

You work through those beliefs, and then we take a break together towards the end. But I’m not straight a student. I’m not one that, you know, excels and perform. So day one, I was like, I’m not gonna drink. And in the beginning there was a little bit of, okay, I kind of want it and I don’t want it. But so quickly was I able to change the beliefs really, you know, in sharing your story and in talking to other people because so much of my story was built around shame was built around hiding what it is that That I’m doing and when you’re in a community of people where they’ve also felt that and you can kind of have compassion for them by expressing compassion for other [00:27:00] people, you start to have compassion for yourself and realize that, like, we’re all human and we’re all kind of doing the best that we can,

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: when you

make a mistake, it’s like, Oh, my God, this is the worst thing ever that if someone says, Oh, I made a mistake, you know, your responses, it’s okay,

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: get back up, we’ll

do it again. And it’s, it’s just so funny that we don’t treat ourselves the same way. So that’s kind of part of the program is having someone there to. You know, they can commiserate with you that can offer you that compassion that you can’t yet offer for yourself when things get hard. So it was day one. I decided I was gonna stop and I didn’t break that streak the longest time.

I actually did. Almost a year ago to the day, about five days before, I think on today’s the 16th, it would have been on like the 11th.

Hugo: Uh huh.

Marci: I,

I, I fell back into depression

Hugo: Okay.

Marci: I sat on my couch for three days in my pajamas and I was pretty much drinking the whole time, like just

Hugo: Mm.

Marci: to get through

the days, um, and I knew this wasn’t helping me and I could feel that this wasn’t [00:28:00] helping me. And. I took actually pictures of myself because I was turning bright red as I do. And I, on day three, I was like, this is it. It’s not working. Like, this is what I have always done when I into depression. I’m going to grab alcohol because alcohol helps. time move forward. It helps me

Hugo: Mm.

Marci: me not

care.

It just it numbs,

right?

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: stops that

pain. And I knew it wasn’t working. This is not helping me. I could feel I’m not getting any better. And I was aware of it at that moment. So day three, I woke, I got up, put my tennis shoes on and went for a walk. And I continued doing that. I didn’t pick up alcohol since, um, I think that was really that last test of that piece.

I hadn’t tried yet, right? I was already able to experience stuff. That I can relax without alcohol, that I can network without alcohol, that I can do all these other things,

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: that

moment a year ago, I learned I can also get through depression without alcohol, right? So I was able to just, to incorporate exercise, which I’ve read the studies, like exercise is a better antidepressant than alcohol.

The most common antidepressants and then therapy. Like exercise is [00:29:00] incredible. It’s not something that I do natively. It’s something I have to kind of work into it, but um, it’s

definitely more effective and I definitely feel so much better about myself than when I’ve been sitting on my couch drinking and

Hugo: Yeah. Having two dogs also helps get regular exercises, I suppose.

Marci: they don’t, they don’t, there’s no options for them. They’re, they’re going to go.

So

Hugo: yeah.

Yeah, Well, it sounds like you had like it’s kind of sounds like you had this kind of experiment like you a year ago where you were like, Oh, I feel like shit. I’m gonna well, maybe it wasn’t a conscious decision, but you were on a couch drinking. Um, but it feels like you’re sort of like writing down how it went.

So that you could look back on how, well, what a, what a waste it, it was actually. I don’t know if that’s, if you mind me calling it that, but it sounds like you were in a lab coat or something. Like, Testing yourself, like, hey, how do I, how do I react to, to [00:30:00] alcohol now? And well, three days later, you’re like, well, it’s, it’s,

Marci: I

Hugo: it’s not that great.

Marci: love that you use the word experiment because so many people could take this as a relapse, right? Oh, I just, I broke my streak. I just lost all that time. I would argue, which flies in the face of some other programs, that you, there’s no such thing as a relapse, that it’s a learning opportunity, that it’s a data point, that it’s an experiment, right? Having had a drink in August in August does not mean that I was not sober for the six months prior, right? Like that doesn’t disappear. I’m not starting at day one. I’m starting at day whatever it is, 181 with having learned and reinforced that this isn’t working for me. So I don’t use the word relapse at all.

I use You know, data point or just kind of a check in reframing belief experiment, all these kind of learning and open and awareness opportunities there because, know, we’re all human. None of us are going to do anything perfectly,

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: these

lessons can actually be [00:31:00] really important for us, right? It taught me.

That this was a belief that I still had in my head, that alcohol is what you do. Uh, drinking is what you do when you’re depressed. And I got to witness that with my eyes wide open to say, no, it’s just not helping. And this is only making things worse. I’m not taking any positive action. I’m not, I’m not bettering myself.

It is making me literally feel more crummy. So yeah, I love, I love experiment. I love people being able to say that it’s okay to try something and to realize it’s not working and try something else.

Hugo: It’s such a wonderful example of reframing something that most people would think of as negative, as something positive. Or well, at least something that, hey, you learn from it. It’s not a failure . It’s just a learning opportunity. It’s, it’s really, well, it’s, it’s amazing.

Marci: Yeah. Yeah.

Hugo: Um, and so your clients, you, you help people throughout your experience help them, uh, get over their, um, addiction to alcohol.

So if they relapse, I suppose you offer them the same advice, like, hey, [00:32:00] uh, take it as a learning experience, and don’t see it as a, as a broken streak, and just continue on.

Marci: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it can be really hard for people like me that are perfectionist and want to do things perfectly and want to have these big long streaks. But I think, like I said, it kind of cements that learning for you. And I think it can be it can be a positive experience to have that test, right? Especially if you can do it in a way that controls for other variables, right? If you’re going to have a test like this, it’s probably not ideal

Hugo: You should be in a laboratory. I’m hearing you say control variables like you’re A B testing practically.

Marci: Does this, is this actually, is this actually working? Let me test my hypothesis, right? But if you’re, if we’re doing it, let’s say you have that drink at a concert, your favorite concert in the world with your best friends,

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: that, alcohol is going to feel like it’s making things more fun, but you can’t really say

it’s

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Marci: right?

Is it just pure alcohol? It’s fun. Or is it? The concert that you’re with with people that you

love,

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: if you can

kind of separate those two things and [00:33:00] see what the alcohol is actually doing, it can really cement so that it’s not just theory. It’s not just theory that I don’t want alcohol. I can actually see our eyes wide open that it’s not doing what I thought it’s going to do.

It is not making anything better.

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: need

alcohol to have fun at a concert or do anything else that I’m doing. So, uh, yeah, I try to help people to help people see that it’s okay to, it’s okay to learn. And that’s. That’s actually how you strengthen things, right? Like if a baby when a baby learns to walk, they don’t just stand up and start walking, right?

They stand up. They taught her and they fall. They stand up. They taught her and they fall. And as they’re doing this, they’re strengthening the muscles in their legs so that eventually when they walk, they won’t fall over, right? It’s the same thing that might need to happen when you’re Bye. When you’re trying to change your behavior around alcohol, you might need to fall so that you can strengthen those muscles that when you get back up, you’re even stronger than you were, right?

Because you’ve reinforced that lesson. If you can do it with your eyes open and look at did alcohol do what I thought it was going to do in that moment, because so few of us ever do that, [00:34:00] you know, we, we drink to relax, but we never stop and say, Did I actually relax? Like if alcohol helps me relax, shouldn’t I feel less stressed over time?

Like I just drink a whole ton and I just won’t ever feel stressed. And that was not the case for me. The more I was drinking, the more stressed I felt. So, so few of us stop and actually look at it. And I think that’s the situation that I walked my clients through is just, you know, now you get to actually stop and think, what was the result here?

Did I get the result I wanted?

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: then I’ve

reinforced a lesson. Now I’m stronger for it.

Hugo: Yeah. That’s amazing. I once went to a Radiohead concert, like, it was back, like, 15 years ago or something. Radiohead used to be my most favorite band. I had posters of them all up on the wall. I practically dreamed of them every day. And so I finally got to go to their concert. I had a few drinks, well, more than a few.

It was a great concert, like, it was the first time that I ever got to see Radiohead. So, you know, amazing. But then the day after I [00:35:00] had, I had a terrible headache and I woke up and I checked out the set list that was on the internet and I was like, ah, I didn’t, I don’t remember them playing this. And I was like, oh my Lord,

Marci: Yeah.

Hugo: though the, the, the, well, the concert was great, it was like, oh my Lord, it could have been much better had I not been under the influence. Um.

Marci: Could you actually remember it? It’s a lot more fun when you actually remember

it

Hugo: Yeah, Yeah,

Marci: yeah.

Hugo: So, uh, yeah, that was a lesson learned. Uh, well, I, I wish I would have, I could have said that I learned that in one shot, but I was still like 17 years old at the time, so not as wise as I am now.

Marci: I mean, I told you, I took me that same lesson over and over every year until I was just kind of ready to admit it. Like a lot of times we see the lesson, but we’re just not really willing to accept it because we have those other beliefs that are

keeping

Hugo: Oh, yeah,

yeah,

Marci: pressure from

society or whatever it is.

Right.

So

Hugo: yeah,

Marci: yeah.

Hugo: That’s

Marci: to have a lesson

over and over.

Hugo: Yeah. If there’s a person listening here right now [00:36:00] and struggling with alcohol, um, but that person already knows everything that you said, like, Hey, I know that this is bad for me and I know that I shouldn’t do this, but well, I, I just kind of feel like I have to, uh, what, what would your advice then be?

Marci: So I have a couple pieces. One, I just want to preface because I think it’s really important. The first is people aware that alcohol is actually one of the few drugs where withdrawal can kill you. So it is a very, very rare situation, right? It is of the heaviest drinkers. About 10 percent of those are physically addicted. But I would be remiss if I just said like, Oh, try stop drinking. And you know, if people are really physically addicted, they might need alcohol. additional support that you’re not going to get from advice on a podcast or

talking

Hugo: Mm-Hmm.

Marci: so just make people aware. It is very, very rare, but if you think that that’s a possibility for you, please go talk to your doctor before you make any changes to your habits.

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: Outside of

that, I

think you have a couple opportunities. I think you can start to look at [00:37:00] you like to drink. Like, what are those situations where you’re like, man, I wish I had a drink? Is it to, you know, feel sophisticated, to have fun, to celebrate, to relax, whatever those things are, and start to take a really critical look at whether or not you like to drink.

Those are true. And what the actual impact of alcohol is in those situations, it can be helpful to have to have a coach or someone to kind of talk these through someone who’s kind of been there. But if you’re going to do this on your own, I think that’s your first step is just being aware because so, so few of us are aware of what we’re doing.

We’re just drinking because that’s what adults do, because that’s how you socialize. And we never stop and ask ourselves like, Is this really getting me the result that I want? And when you can let go of those beliefs, your, your behavior changes naturally. It’s not an effort. Like I said, you don’t have to worry about, about trying not to drink because there is no more temptation there when you don’t have any misconceptions about how alcohol is going to help you.

Hugo: I really love that you started with that, that little nuanced answer. Um,

Marci: Yeah.

Hugo: [00:38:00] it, it shows that this is not the first time that you’ve been asked that question before, I guess. Yeah.

Marci: a possibility, but really it’s, it’s just, it’s just opening your eyes. We’re kind of going through on autopilot and, you know, it’s, it’s just time to open our eyes and

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: really showing

up.

Hugo: I’m also really happy to have another podcast guest where the, it, the story becomes full circle, you know, the thing that you struggled and your, her story, uh, what started this, uh, eventually helps you find your, well, your strengths in a way. And now that you found it, you’re able to help others who are at the start of their story, help them navigate their struggles more efficiently

Marci: yeah, I mean, why else would I go through this if it’s not to help other people kind of avoid that same pain, right?

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: I think

it’s a passion. I never thought I would have I never thought I would start my own business I never thought I would quit drinking But i’ve just seen so many [00:39:00] opportunities From that that that pivotal moment in my life where I said, I don’t want to do this anymore Everything has changed for the better and i’m just so grateful that I I stopped and listened to that voice in me that said This just isn’t it’s not serving you anymore.

It’s just not it’s not doing what you want it to

do.

Hugo: There’s a beautiful saying in Dutch that I don’t know how to pronounce, uh, translate, so,

Marci: okay

Hugo: I’ll just, don’t try. But, um, in, in Scandinavia, you have, uh, alcohol stores that are state owned. Um, which makes it a little bit harder to get your hands on alcohol.

They’re also twice as expensive as anywhere else in the world. Um, do you feel like the U. S. could use a little bit of that?

Marci: I think that making the barriers to drinking can slightly improve it. But until the culture changes, I think it’s not going to have enough of an impact, right? Like I think in Norway, [00:40:00] it’s incredibly expensive to get liquor and yet there are still people drinking, right? So I think until you have that full. Culture shift where it’s there’s not understood that every time you go to a party alcohol has to be there or, you know, anytime you network alcohol has to be there. Like if we can as a society say this is something that is actually poisoning us. It’s hurting our health. It’s something that we don’t really want to do, then putting up those barriers isn’t going to do a lot.

It’s going to stop the people with the least amount of resources, which is But for people that have the resources,

Hugo: Yeah.

Marci: you know,

even where you are, like, they’re still going to go to those alcohol stores right there.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah.

Marci: right? So I think it can kind of slow down and add barriers to the people that have the least resources, which can be really hard because if that’s what they’re using to cope and they have the least amount of resources, what else is available to them?

Right? Therapy is incredibly expensive and counseling is expensive. And so if I don’t even have the resources to get to. special government owned store, [00:41:00] then what am I going to turn to? I think you can kind of set up a little bit of a risk that way. But I think the, the real opportunity is as a culture, understanding what we’re doing and why we’re doing it and to not give so much power to the alcohol industry, which, you know, makes billions and billions of dollars a year at the cost of human life.

So.

Hugo: So what about those, uh, like in smoking cigarettes, you have these little images of the lungs of chain smokers. Um, Oh yeah. Yeah. Hmm.

Marci: I don’t know. I haven’t kind of seen a study on the impact of that. I think that could also be a willpower thing, right? So if I see that black lung, and yet I still smoke, it’s because I have such willpower that I’m going to do it anyway, right? I, I think. I don’t think that anybody has, uh, an illusion or disillusion that the cigarettes are healthy.

So putting that on there, we already know, like, they already know it’s gonna cause cancer and yet they still smoke. So there’s something that they believe that that cigarette is doing for them, right? So you could do [00:42:00] that for alcohol. They could, in the U. S., the warning label says, may cause health problems. Which is insane because it was declared a carcinogen back in 1988 and it’s at the same level of risk for cancer as asbestos radiation and tobacco, right? There is no, it doesn’t may cause health problem. It’s gonna cause health problems if you drink enough alcohol. So you could, you could have some stricter, uh, Um, regulations about that.

But again, I think people already have some idea of risk. They, I’m certain don’t have a full picture. Very few people know that alcohol causes cancer. Uh, they know that it causes some liver issues, right? If you drink too much. So there’s, there’s some awareness of risk. You could make that a little bit bolder and some people that drink very heavily or regularly, it’ll be easier for them to fall off.

But if I’m drinking because I’m, I’m stressed out and that’s my immediate need, those Those problems are future me problems, right? Right now I’m stressed. I need to deal with it. Yeah, I might, I could possibly get cancer, but I’ll deal with it later. Right now. I need to handle the situation. [00:43:00] So, uh, having, having more resources for the reason people are turning to alcohol, I think is a, is a better, better solution in that

area.

Hugo: Yeah, cool. Yeah, I kind of got myself derailed here with the Scandinavia question, but I just want to, I was curious, like, what’s your, what’s your, what are your thoughts on that? So, um, yeah, I’m going to try to wrap this up a little as my dog chews on her stick for a little bit. I don’t know if you heard that, but she was like choking on her stick for a bit.

Um, yeah. So,

so you’re in Dallas. Well, if, uh, are you like, uh, do you do online coaching or in person?

Marci: I do all online coaching.

It

Hugo: Ah, okay.

Marci: more people in a more flexible way than trying to rent an office space,

Hugo: Yeah, so.

if people wanna get your thoughts, get your help, or just get in touch with you, where can they do that?

Marci: Yeah. So I actually, um, I’m doing some private coaching, but now I’ve kind of pivoted to a course to offer resources for people that really just kind of want to do things on their own time,

Hugo: Yeah?

Marci: I

am, it’s, my name is everywhere, right? So my name [00:44:00] is Marci Rossi. My website’s Marci Rossi. com. My social media handles are coach Marci Rossi.

So, um, I’m the, I, there’s not a lot of Marci Rossi’s out there. There is a Marco Rossi who plays apparently in the NHL. That’s not me, but otherwise Marci Rossi, that’s where you can find me anywhere. And I love talking, obviously, I love talking about this, and I’m more than happy to talk through anybody that has, you know, questions, concerns, or just thoughts and ideas, please reach out to me because nothing gets me more fired up than talking about things I’m passionate about.

Yeah.

Hugo: about, about this topic, yeah, which makes you a great guest to have on the show.

Um, yeah, I’ll, I’ll make sure to drop everything in the show notes in the comments below. Um, just Marco Rossi. It’s so nice that if you have a, well, it sucks if you share the same name with a celebrity.

Marci: Yeah.

Hugo: Then you’re like,

Marci: Yeah.

Hugo: you cannot find me online. It’s practically impossible to find me online. But for you, luckily, you are Marci and not Marco Rossi.

Marci: I, will say if you Google [00:45:00] Marci Rossi, I do come up above Marco, but Google might ask you like, did you mean? And

Hugo: Did you mean Marco?

Marci: Marci. Don’t throw Marco out there. Don’t remember Marco. It’s Marci.

Hugo: Yeah, so, uh, to, to my audience, if you Google Marco Rossi, then just re Google Marci Rossi, because then Google thinks like, oh wait, Marci is the more famous one.

Uh, let’s start with that one.

Marci: For

Hugo: Exactly, yeah. You might make that happen.

Marci: Yeah. will. Let’s do it.

Hugo: All right. So, well, it’s been really nice to have you here on the show. Uh, as my dogs gets in the view right now, she’s, Oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh. All right. Well, as we started the podcast, she just wants to fit in, you know,

Marci: Yeah. I think she’s telling you it’s done, right? Like,

come

Hugo: Exactly.

Marci: this.

Hugo: I’m going to go out for a walk for a small exercise to get this, uh, this, uh, dopamine flowing. Um, just . Last question, it’s 105 [00:46:00] degrees Fahrenheit in, in Dallas. Um, and it’s a Saturday. Um, It’s a Friday. Oh, my Lord. Yeah. Um, so what’s your, what’s your day look like?

Marci: Uh, I actually have a client call later this afternoon for business and then I am calling it for the weekend. So I am prepping for my client call. It’s very excited. She’s got a new art business that we are going to take off the ground and then I’m going to relax for the rest of the weekend. Take it easy.

I am hoping to go see Deadpool versus Wolverine this weekend before it leaves theaters. So no spoilers. And, uh, yeah, that’s, those are my plans.

Hugo: That sounds awesome. All right. Well, um, yeah. Thanks again for being on the show. Uh, really amazing story. Um, yeah. To the listeners to click on the links below to check, uh, to get in touch with Marci. Uh, yeah. Thanks again. It’s been really nice to have you.

Marci: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.

Hugo: Well, there you have it. That was another episode of the Tracking Happiness podcast. Now, if you liked this episode, please leave [00:47:00] a review of this podcast on the platform you’re listening to. It will really help me share these stories with more people. If you didn’t like this episode, yeah, just disregard all that.

If you want to learn more about my guest, do check out any links in the notes below. Or if you want to be a guest on the podcast, please go to trackinghappiness. com slash share your story. And before you know it, you will help others overcome their own struggles of mental health. Lastly, I hope you have a great day wherever you are.

See you in the next one. Bye bye.