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Episode #4: Alana Van Der Sluys

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Hugo: [00:00:00] All right, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the tracking happiness podcast, a podcast about mental health struggles, um, discussing them, talking about them and yeah, just generally surfacing inspiring stories from all over the world. Um, and today I’m here with Alana, Alana Vander Sluis. Is that correct pronationation?

Alana: very good.

Hugo: Thanks for being on the podcast.

Alana: You’re welcome. Thank you for having me.

Hugo: Yeah. So, so let me just get this right off the way. Um, your, your last name is, is Dutch. Uh, like the origins are Dutch, which, you know, I am from the Netherlands, so I’m Dutch. And your last name, uh, has the same kind of sound like the, the U and the Y like the sluice, uh, which is also in my last name and no one can pronounce it right.

Alana: Now,

Hugo: Um,

Alana: lot of VanderSloys

that I hear here in the States.

Hugo: [00:01:00] I’ve sort of given up on correcting people. Um, even though it’s, it’s almost always like way off base. Um, I’m just like, all right, that’s fine. You tried.

Alana: Good try.

Hugo: Yeah, exactly. So yeah. Well, thanks for being here. Um, yeah. Um, just want to get it also right off the bat. I think you’re a more experienced podcaster than I am.

This is the fourth episode of the tracking happiness podcast. So it’s still a little bit, a little bit awkward. So fair warning for, for you, Alana, and also for the listeners and the viewers out there. Um,

but yeah,

Alana: That’s

Hugo: that’s

Alana: This is just this is just us talking.

This is just a conversation that happens to be captured. I’m

Hugo: exactly, well, that’s, that’s pretty much the tagline of this podcast. The way I see it is as if we’re talking in a little cafe and the listeners or the viewers, they get to overhear an interesting story about overcoming or learning to live [00:02:00] with a struggle of mental health. Um, so yeah, let’s just dive in, uh, a lot of, um, who are you, uh, where are you from?

What do you do? Um, how are you doing?

Alana: doing well. Thanks for asking. Uh, so I am, uh, a certified intuitive eating counselor. So I, um, help mostly women, some men, but mostly women, uh, ditch diet culture, kind of identify diet culture for what it is, first of all, because it’s, it’s become so ingrained in our society that we just think it’s normal.

We don’t really. Know what it is or know how to label it. We just know it makes us feel inferior and feel like crap. So, uh, identifying what diet culture is, how it shows up in our lives, why we allow it to stay there and kind of run the show of our lives, and then how to actually stop, uh, ourselves on this diet culture, hamster wheel that we’ve put ourselves on and, and really answer the question of how can we be. As [00:03:00] fit as we want, as healthy as we want, as vibrant as we want, as present in our lives as we want, as, uh, and feel as confident as we want, without having to be on a diet, without having to be constantly pursuing weight loss in order to feel the way we want to feel both internally and externally.

Hugo: So, so this, what you do now, it started with you facing a struggle, um, if I’m correct, correct me if I’m wrong. Um, and throughout that journey, you started experiencing, Hey, what I learned, I can use to help others who are. Facing similar struggles, right? Um, before, before we dive in, just to start at, uh, at, uh, at the easy questions, maybe, um,

you’re from the States, right?

Alana: Yes,

Hugo: Yeah. So which, which state are you from?

Alana: New Jersey.

Hugo: New Jersey. Okay. So, so you live at the coast, the East coast that you live right on the coast or.

Alana: Uh, no, we don’t live right on the coast. [00:04:00] We we border new york where we are. But um, yeah, we’re not it’s not It’s not quite the jersey shore, which i’m sure is

Hugo: Oh

yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah.

Alana: right? Those people?

Hugo: I’m not sure if you want to be, um, um, labeled as such.

Alana: No.

Hugo: No. Okay. Yeah, because that that particular MTV show I think was broadcasted all over the world. Um, and, uh, doing permanent damage to the state of New Jersey, I suppose.

Alana: Yes, yes, I live in a very quiet, very rural part of New

Hugo: I’m sure there are some beautiful aspects to your state.

Alana: there are, there are, you know, as with any place, right? There’s always

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Alana: nice parts and the nice parts.

Hugo: Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, um, nice. Yeah. I always like to start off with an easy question to kind of have a, an icebreaker, but also for the listeners to know, like, all right, this person is from this place of the world because cultural impacts are, um, sometimes a little bit forgotten as well.

But anyway, food, nutrition, [00:05:00] um, dieting, that’s kind of your thing now, right?

Alana: Yeah,

Hugo: you, can you tell me and the listeners, um, how that started?

Alana: so I, I, in my 20s, started going down this rabbit hole of wanting to lose weight and wanting to be as fit as possible and, you know, we could, we could really go back and unpack, you know, All of the things that

Hugo: Root causes?

Alana: to yeah,

Hugo: Yeah.

Alana: like, you know Tldr right just to kind of get to

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Alana: was it was perfectionism.

It was um a protective measure against criticism and I grew up in the late 90s early 2000s and that was a time in the states where Everybody was stick thin and everybody wanted to be as thin as possible. And you know You know, abs everywhere, you know, and it just, you know, you, you, you learn to, uh, Avoid [00:06:00] criticism and get compliments and validation through the way that your body looks

Hugo: I, I, I remember like France was huge at that point, like the show France in, set in Manhattan where Rachel and Monica and Phoebe are all like pretty, pretty much real thin.

Alana: Yeah, and if you follow that show because i’m a huge fan of that show if you follow that show The women get thinner and thinner

Hugo: Oh, yeah,

Alana: goes on

Hugo: yeah, yeah,

Alana: that kind of really shows

you the trajectory that we’re all supposed to be on

Hugo: Yeah.

Alana: you know in my

20s, I was 22. I was 16 Finishing up grad school, and I didn’t know, you know, when I was gonna get a job, where I was gonna get a job, where I was gonna live.

It was all these question marks in my life all of a sudden that I never had before. Everything had kind of been planned out and easy until that point. So I felt very dysregulated. I didn’t, I felt like I didn’t know where I was going or who I was. And when you feel so out of control of your life, you [00:07:00] sometimes Decide that food and weight is going to be the thing that you control and

Hugo: Oh, yeah,

Alana: a very popular narrative

for a lot of People who have disordered eating issues is this need for control if I can control my weight If I can control how many calories i’m taking in I feel some sense of control in this crazy universe, you know We’re we’re spinning on this rock in the middle of the universe And it’s just like it just it can freak you out.

Hugo: yeah,

Alana: you do search for control

so I was a binge eater, so I would restrict during the week, I would eat clean and watch my calories and try to eat as little as possible, but what that does is it puts your body in starvation mode, and it says oh my god, I’m dying, there’s a famine, I have to have food. So on the weekends, when I would go out with friends, I would binge, I would over, I would eat past fullness. then of course, with the diet obsessed society comes all this guilt and the shame of, Oh my gosh, I’ve messed up all this progress that I’ve made during the week, losing this weight. [00:08:00] Um, and now I’m going to have to start all over again

Hugo: yeah,

Alana: on Monday. So that went on for years, I became very underweight, I, you know, had physical symptoms of just being lightheaded all the time, my hair was thinning, um, psychological symptoms where, you know, I, I didn’t want to go out with friends because they wanted to go out to the bar or the restaurant and I didn’t want to do those things and, you know, you, you start isolating yourself and you become obsessive. it just, it reached a breaking point eventually where I realized I, I couldn’t continue to live this way. I, you know, I had to think, well, how much, how much thinner do I have to get before I feel good about myself?

Hugo: yeah, yeah. That’s a rabbit hole where you’ll never reach the bottom, I suppose.

Alana: exactly. I realized the answer was I, I’m never going to feel good enough.

This is, this is not the route that’s going to make me feel good enough.

Hugo: Yeah,

Alana: had to, I had to

heal myself and figure out, you know, heal my body, but also heal my mind and saying there, there [00:09:00] must be another way to be happy. It can’t be this.

Hugo: yeah, yeah. So an unhealthy relationship with food practically like in your twenties, right?

Alana: Yeah,

Hugo: formative years, I suppose.

Alana: mm

Hugo: So without going into any rude issues or anything like, uh, other rabbit holes, but, um, where are you using any like apps or social media, like trackers or like groups where people all cheer each other on for losing weight or not eating, uh, their calories or stuff like that.

Alana: Um, you know, I kind of really wasn’t at the time You know, I was on social media, but it was social it was like just Facebook Instagram wasn’t really a thing yet This was like early to 2010,

Hugo: Yeah.

Alana: know, it just came out

Hugo: The good old days. Yeah.

Alana: does us in just as much.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alana: and pretty and young. [00:10:00] And what does that tell us? Like the, the subtext there is you have to be thin, pretty and young in order to

Hugo: To be seen. Yeah.

Alana: you know.

Hugo: Yeah. That’s a topic for a while. They’re up a podcast, I guess, but just a subtle, um, uh, impacts that you see all around you. Um, especially for women, I, I, I guess, uh, it’s just nonstop, um, That was one of the reasons you started trying to control your caloric intake, which, you know, can be a good thing for lots of people, you know, like something to control, but it kind of went overboard and led to a whole host of other, uh, struggles.

Alana: Exactly. And it’s, it’s so interesting because I’ve, I feel like my stance on all of this has evolved throughout the years. Like, I used to think dieting was the best thing in the world and that’s all I wanted to do. And then when I found intuitive eating, it was, you know, very anti diet and it’s like, in my mind, [00:11:00] it was like anyone who’s trying to lose weight is disordered. And now I’m like coming to this, this middle ground where it’s like you, it’s your prerogative. And if you want. to lose weight. If you want to track whatever you want to track, fine. I think the bottom line is, and in terms of your podcast, you know, tracking happiness, as long as you feel good in your body and you genuinely feel happy, I think that’s fine. all anybody can ask and that’s your own prerogative

Hugo: that that sounds like a perfect way to to end this conversation almost, but we’re not there yet. But but, uh, you, you mentioned intuitive eating, uh, which I haven’t heard before because intuitive eating sounds exactly like the opposite of what you were doing, uh, at the time.

Um, can you tell a bit more about that? Mm

Alana: eating it’s it’s a science backed philosophy. There have been over a hundred studies to date that Support the [00:12:00] validity of what is called intuitive eating and all intuitive eating is it’s it’s exactly what it sounds like it’s eating Intuitively it’s eating Based on your own body’s intuition.

So instead of saying I can only have x amount of calories per day You You don’t add anything up. You don’t count anything. You just exist in the world. And when you get the signals that you’re hungry, you eat something. And when you get the signals you’re full, you stop. And you try as best as you can to implement what we call gentle nutrition.

So you know that there are three

Hugo: hmm.

Alana: is, there’s your fats, there’s your

carbs, and there’s your protein. And you just try. during your day to get some combination of all of those into your diet. You try to get your fruits and veggies, try to get your water and your fiber, but you’re not obsessively tracking.

And you’re also not looking to the scale to determine how much or how [00:13:00] little you eat throughout the day. In fact, anybody who goes on an intuitive eating journey and I had to do it myself for several years, you don’t weigh yourself because you you weigh yourself and you are a weight that you think is higher than you should be You’re going to try to eat less to get that weight down

Hugo: Yeah.

Alana: if It makes you feel like crap to eat that little because people think the number

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Alana: down and I can get in a whole

thing and I won’t but You know people conflate and confuse Health with weight

Hugo: Yeah.

Alana: there’s so much more to health

than just weight.

Weight is like one thing single data point in terms of what makes your overall health, but there’s so much out there, know, that’s a weight centric about health. Like that is the Coley grail of whether or not you’re going to die from a disease, but that’s really not the case. It’s a lot of, um, paranoia out there

Hugo: Yeah. So one [00:14:00] thing that I that that shot through my mind when you said that is a studies. So hundreds of studies have shown the positive sides effects of intuitive eating. But. just if if if someone wants to lose weight, right? That person only only focuses on losing losing weight. Whereas I think the point with intuitive eating is not not per definition to lose as much weight as quickly as possible, but just to be happy your own body and to be healthy.

Um, so, so in that in that sense, um, how like what’s the what’s the goal that these studies are trying to to to measure. So is it, uh, health? Uh, is it a matter of subjective happiness? Like, hey, uh, X participants in this study, um, are 10 percent happier than those who didn’t do intuitive eating.

Alana: It’s, it’s both. It’s, it’s, um, in terms of some of the, the [00:15:00] physical markers, people had lower instances of diabetes, people had lower instances of hypertension. And the reason is, There a lot of people will say to me, you know I feel better when I weigh less and I have to challenge them and I say do you feel better because the number on the scale went down or do you feel better because you’re starting to appreciate and respect your body By feeding it nourishing foods, by going on walks and moving your body, by hydrate, you know, by managing your stress.

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Alana: the number itself,

or is it all of the things you try to do to be healthier?

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah. It’s correlation versus causation. Right?

Alana: Yeah, and it’s, it’s crazy. I, I weigh, I weigh more now than I did When I was constantly dieting, but I look better I feel better because I let go of that crazy [00:16:00] grasp in that There I mean, there’s so much noise out there that women should be eating 1, 200 calories to lose weight and they’re messing up their Metabolisms and their body is holding on to the fat To fat for dear life because they’re scared it’s gonna die.

They don’t realize that by suppressing your metabolism, you’re actually hindering weight loss. So you’re biting off your nose to spite your face. But, you know, that’s the narrative that we hear in diet culture all the time, is that eat less, move more, but that’s not necessarily the case..

Hugo: So. How did you find out that intuitive eating was the, um, the, the solution to your struggles?

Alana: I you know, I think it found me. I forget how I found it, but I found a podcast about intuitive eating and I

Hugo: Nice.

Alana: and it just, it

blew my mind because I was like, there is a, there’s a reality out there where women don’t care about the number on the [00:17:00] scale and they’re happy. And I was like, it just didn’t, it didn’t compute to me, but I knew that that was my solution because I knew I couldn’t keep doing what I was doing, right?

I was eating under a thousand calories, I was about a hundred pounds, I was, and I still hated myself, so it just, I was like, this cannot go on, I will kill myself, you know, whether intentionally or not.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alana: and They’re, not doing all these crazy things.

They’re, they’re still pursuing health, but without this obsession, I’m going to try this because what I was doing wasn’t working. So I have to try something else. Right. I was, I was pushing the door, pushing the door, pushing the door. All I had to do is pull the door.

Hugo: Yeah, that’s a nice analogy., just something that came into my mind again. Um, have you read the book by that girl starring in iCarly? Jeanette? Jeanette?

Uh, I’m not sure. Uh, with the title, I’m Glad My Mom Died. It’s, it’s[00:18:00]

Alana: Oh, yeah. I heard the

title. Very jarring. I haven’t read it, though. I heard it’s good, though.

Hugo: it is, but it is, um, Well, okay, so I’ll just try to keep this short. But anyway, she was a successful actress, right? But the root cause of all her issues was deep, very deep. It took her years before she was able to learn to live with the struggles that she was carrying with her each day. And even despite her, you know, reaching her lowest weights, um, keep being as successful as ever on a TV show.

She was, she was miserable. Uh, and it all diet and food. Uh, the relationship with food was such a massive part of that book. Uh, it was really, really interesting, but also, um, just so bizarre that from an outsider perspective, you see this happy girl who is successful, who is looking great, you know, uh, because it’s pretty much picture perfect.[00:19:00]

And then yet underneath the surface. It’s just hell basically. That’s, that’s what this podcast is about. I think like just trying to get these stories out there because stuff like eating disorders or a negative relationship with food, that’s the kind of mental struggle that you don’t see on the outside generally.

So it’s, it’s great to have you here and just to, to get your perspective on it um, but now, all right, intuitive eating. So you explained what it is. Um, so yeah. And what do you do now?

Alana: So, I, you know, I, I used to take clients. I don’t take clients anymore. Cause I, I actually have a full time job. I’m actually a high school English teacher.

Hugo: Oh, wow.

Nice.

Alana: job. So, I’m off for the

summer, which is great. But I used to take clients. I don’t take clients anymore.

Hugo: Yeah.

Alana: but I do, I do study English.

I do speak

on podcasts like this, I do speaking engagements for women’s organizations and companies. Um, and I have my book, which is called Freedom with Food and Fitness, and it’s all about [00:20:00] my journey and just really practical, actionable tips for people who, you know, want to try intuitive eating or at the very least, Release their death grip on dieting and try something a little more gentle a little more of a gentle alternative to Uh to the dieting world.

Hugo: Yeah.

Alana: that that is what I do now

Hugo: That’s beautiful. I, I have to just go back a bit because your interview, uh, the original interview that we published on tracking happiness. That’s from August, 2023. So that’s, yeah, that’s 10 months ago. Um, so things have changed in between. You’re teaching English. That’s, that’s wonderful. Um,

Alana: I have been the whole time like this was this was always like just like a passion project

Hugo: yeah, yeah

Alana: But yeah, yeah.

Hugo: I, I can relate to that. Um, I’ve been working on tracking happiness for more than seven years now. And I always, well, I, I, I spend a lot of time on it, [00:21:00] obviously, but it’s still the, the, the hobby for me. The side project. So yeah, I can definitely relate with that.

Alana: Yeah, and it’s funny because I feel like I feel like side projects are very much a lot of us trying to heal ourselves as well

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Alana: you’re, yeah, you’re, you’re,

on the track and the happiness and I’m, you know, healing women as

Hugo: Yeah.

Alana: as well. I heal myself and

it’s all, yeah, we’re all trying to just get a little bit better, I

Hugo: You don’t need a lot of people who are doing a side project, but who are also happy in the main thing that they do, right? You’re like, a side project is something of an escape to, like, an escape from the thing that you have to do, an escape to something that you want to do. , but anyway, um, let me just get back on the train here. So yeah, um, a book, um, you mentioned tips. Uh, it’s, it’s freedom with food and exercise, right?

Alana: with food and fitness.

Hugo: Fitness. Okay. Yeah. Freedom. Yeah. So freedom, [00:22:00] intuitive, like letting, letting go of any rules that you knew, throw them out of the window and just follow your guts basically.

Right. Yeah. If there’s, if there’s, uh, well, okay. So if there’s a person listening to this podcast or watching this podcast and wondering, hey, so what’s one tip that they can start with right now to help them overcome their, their relationship with food, the negative aspect of it.

Alana: Other than pick up the book. Other than pick up the book on Amazon, I would say get rid of the scale. That is something that kept, it kept me stuck for

so long. Because you become a slave to that number, um, if you just, if you, if you’ve not focused on the number and you’re focused on how you feel throughout the day, that’s gonna make a huge difference.

Hugo: Just Throw it

out there.

Alana: throw it out smash it, throw it out.

Hugo: I’m now thinking of that scene, um,

The Office. No, no, not The Office, but um, uh, Where they, they have their baseball bats and they smash the printer to [00:23:00] bits. Um, but then with the scale, you know.

Alana: Yep. I love

Hugo: What’s the movie now? It’s the cult classic movie.

Alana: office space?

Hugo: office space. Yep, that’s the one. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, people who are having a negative relationship with food, it’s most likely due to them trying to chase a number on a scale that is not correlated with their well, it is correlated.

Well, no, it doesn’t lead directly to happiness and health and your book and you are basically just trying to spread the message that, hey, you have to break that. Basically, just get rid of the numbers and follow your guts.

Alana: Yeah. And I think it’s also worth saying, you know, journaling feeling are you chasing? Like what, through this weight loss journey that you’re trying to go on or trying to change your body or whatever, what feeling are you looking for? Is it, is it validation from others? Is it a, a [00:24:00] self-acceptance? Is it, what is it?

Like what are you, are you looking to feel safe in your body? ’cause you feel like if you’re healthy, you’re safe. You know what I mean?

Hugo: Mm hmm.

Alana: of play around with those root

issues.

Hugo: So you mentioned journaling. Was it something you did throughout that journey?

Alana: You know, I didn’t, but I do now because I feel like it, it just. And maybe I did, I didn’t journal, but in my head I always had like a gratitude list

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Alana: like if I had

things that I was grateful for and things that were going well in my life, I didn’t have to rely so much on what the number on the scale said that day.

Like that didn’t have to be my source of gratitude and worthiness if I had other things that I was focusing on.

Hugo: Nice. So, so a bit of a sidestep here, like tracking happiness, right? That’s tracking happiness. com. That’s the website. That’s the podcast. But it all started with me journaling and I’m, I’m quantifying something subjective, you know, happiness. And each day I try to rate my [00:25:00] happiness.

Um, whereas there’s a big group of people who was shouting from the rooftops, like, hey, if you’re tracking your happiness, you’re basically trying to chase it. And the act of chasing something makes it not a pleasant experience. So in a way, they were saying, and studies were also being written about this, uh, chasing happiness reduces happiness.

Alana: Absolutely.

Hugo: there’s, there’s a bit of a, a bit of an overlap between the subject of weight loss and healthy, uh, a healthy relationship with food versus tracking happiness and a healthy happy life. Um,

in that sense. But then I think

Alana: targets.

Hugo: exactly. But then I like the way the thing you said at the start of the podcast where you said, All right, so it doesn’t matter what you do.

As long as you’re happy and healthy, you do you, even if you step on the skill 10 times a day or even if you don’t use a skill. Um, [00:26:00] I don’t know if if I interpreted that correctly, but that’s the thing that stood by me. Like whatever you do, you. As long as you’re happy, that’s all right.

Alana: Yeah, if if someone if someone wants to track their, their protein grounds because they have, you know, some sort of aesthetic muscle mass gain, go, like, go for it, you do, as long as you still feel good and as long as it’s not impacting your life in a negative way, I, everyone has to go their own journey and their own way and, and for me to tell somebody what’s going to make them happy is, It’s super inauthentic.

Mm

Hugo: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because every journey is unique. Only the person that’s actually on the journey can tell what steps to take and which direction to go.

Alana: Exactly.

Hugo: Nice, yeah, that sounds podcast. Is there anything else I should have touched upon that you feel like, hey, I kind of want [00:27:00] to share that too?

Alana: You know, I feel like, I feel like we covered a lot. We went all sorts of ways, up and down. I think it was great. Um, you know, I definitely encourage people to, to find me on Instagram, at freedomwithfoodandfitness. If they want tips and tricks or just want to talk or have a question, um, I’m there often. So,

Hugo: yeah.

nice. Yeah, I’ll, I’ll make sure to, uh, drop any, any link or anything in the show notes. Um, yeah. So people, uh, if you want advice, you’ve heard it. Um, go to the links down below and, uh, uh, reach out to Alana and yeah, she won’t give you an advice on where to go. I think because as we discussed, only you can find out, but at least she can help you find your,

well, find the direction.

Um, Yeah, so thanks so much for being on this conversation with me. It was really nice, really interesting.

Alana: Thanks for having me.

Hugo: All right. Well, to my listeners, um, this is the fourth [00:28:00] time I’ve recorded a podcast, so the outros are usually a bit awkward. I don’t, I still don’t know how to end these things. So, uh, on the previous episodes, I’ve waved to the camera and only then realized that, Hey, this is a podcast and 90 percent of the viewers aren’t viewing, they are listening.

Um, so yeah, I’m just gonna let this be awkward and just thanks again. I don’t wanna, um,

Alana: Bye! Bye!

Hugo: Yeah, great. I’m just going to press, uh, press stop here and, uh, do the outro later.

1 thought on “Episode #4: Alana Van Der Sluys”

  1. I am EstherKamaku from Kenya. With this podcast I’m finally liberated. Dwelt in guilty throughout because I thought I don’t look like other people in terms of body. I am finally happy

    Reply

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