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Episode #5: Kyle Elliott

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Hugo: [00:00:00] Hey everyone, uh, welcome to another episode of the tracking happiness podcast, where I talk about the most inspiring people, basically, um, people from all over the world who have dealt with or experienced or overcome, um, a struggle that’s related to mental health. Uh, and today I’m here with Kyle Elliott.

Uh, hey Kyle, thanks for being here.

Kyle: Yes, thank you for having me. I’m excited to be speaking with you in the audience today about this important topic

Hugo: Oh yeah. Yeah. So important topics. That’s what it’s all about. The mental health. Yeah. Um, so basically just the ideas we’re going to have, well, mental health struggles. There’s so many of them. Some are, um, clear as day. Some are a little bit more under the surface. Um, Either way, there is a big stigma on mental health and being able to openly discuss this is, no, it can be quite [00:01:00] fearsome.

It can be scary as hell. So already, thanks for being here, being able to talk about your story. I really appreciate it.

Kyle: us. Thank you for having me. And this is how we work to cure that stigma is by talking about it, having these conversations and shedding a light on those stories that people don’t always want to talk about.

Hugo: Exactly. Yeah. So on that note, um, let me just kick this off. Uh, Kyle, um, who are you, where are you from? What do you do and how are you doing?

Kyle: Yes, my name is Kyle Elliott, as you said. I’m a career coach. I primarily work with tech executives, so people in Silicon Valley or other big tech hubs who are trying to find jobs they love or they’re in a job and they’re like, well, I don’t know if this is what I want to be doing exactly and figuring out what’s next for them. When I’m not working with tech executives, I’m often at Disneyland. My partner and I moved from Northern California to Southern California. gosh, almost four years ago now to be closer to Disneyland. So usually on the weekends we’re at [00:02:00] Disneyland, or we have a no work Saturday practice, or we’re somewhere, maybe Malibu, or we went up to visit my parents in Paso Robles recently doing something, so I love new adventures, trying new things. And I am doing really well lately, um, both with the work, I’m loving the work I’m doing, and I’m a recovering workaholic and doing a good job, my partner is good at reminding me, hey, it’s no work Saturday, and he’s a visionary, so saying, here’s some great idea, and then I’m the executor of like, okay, how are we going to go make that happen, we need to reserve the hotel. where we need to get tickets, whatever it might be right now. Sabrina Carpenter is big, so we’re like, are we going to go see her concert? We always just like doing something fun and then being able to report back on Monday to people. Here’s what we did this weekend, because we’re known for always just Some sort of trip on the weekend.

Hugo: Nice. So, so your partner is the, uh, the idea person I comes up with all the ideas yeah.

Kyle: yes. And sometimes I have to reel him in and say, okay, like, this is only a Saturday, like, let’s be realistic, what we can do. Or it’s like, here’s a [00:03:00] bakery, and it’s two hours away, and like, we’ll already be in LA, and then he wants to drive further.

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Kyle: I’ll entertain it, other times have to say, okay, let’s, let’s not drive another two hours, and then two hours back, like, let’s pick and choose.

But he’s good at coming up with ideas, and I’m sparking that curiosity in me for new

Hugo: Oh yeah. Nice. Yeah. So you’re from Southern California now, right? So Silicon Valley, uh, San Francisco.

Kyle: Yes, yes, exactly.

Hugo: Yeah. Nice. All right. Yeah. Cool. So, so career coach, um, I want to get back to that. Um, because, and this is a common theme in these episodes. Um, it’s, it’s so funny, like always the, the thing that people do when I get to talk to them is a almost always a result of what they’ve been through. It’s, um, it’s almost as if those two are related to each other.

Um, So, so, um, California, if you always lived in [00:04:00] California,

Kyle: Yes, so I was born in Santa Barbara, actually, and then moved away when I was younger to Paso Robles. My parents wanted to be able to buy a house and it was more affordable in Paso Robles, but I’ve always lived in California other than graduate school in Washington. And I spent a summer in New York.

Actually, I worked at the School of American Ballet. It’s a theater

Hugo: Oh, wow.

Kyle: New York City Ballet. So I had a summer there, but always been in California. Yeah. Um, my partner and I are deciding where we want to buy a house, and we’re like, oh, what about this state or this state? Um, and sorry to any listeners in another state in the U.

S., but it’s, it’s hard to find another state as great as California. Um, so we’re probably going to stick here to buy a house.

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Kyle: that’s the one part that’s challenging is trying to afford a house here, but

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: it’s such a lovely place to live.

Hugo: It’s funny. So for any non us listeners, like those, those, that string of sentences that you just said was like so many American highlights, like [00:05:00] Disney, uh, Disney San Francisco, Silicon Valley, New York. Uh,

Kyle: It’s funny, I work with a lot of clients who aren’t in the U. S. and they’ll be like, Oh, I’m in SF for the weekend, do you want to see each other? I’m like, I live in L. A. and they don’t always realize. that it’s like a six or eight hour drive. Um, California is huge. It’s I think 16 hours to drive from the top to the bottom.

Hugo: yeah,

Kyle: not like New York or Jersey or something where, I mean, you have traffic there, but it’s different. It’s so huge. People don’t realize

Hugo: yeah. Even New York, you compare it to New York as if New York is tiny. I’m, I’m from the Netherlands, which is the size of New York city, practically. So not even state upstate New York, but just the city itself. It’s, it’s really tiny. Um, yeah, I always like talking with Americans, like people from the States, you have such a unique view, positively,

Kyle: Yeah.

Hugo: yeah, um, but anyway, uh, mental health struggles.

So this podcast, which, um, [00:06:00] well, it’s about destigmatizing mental health. So, uh, Um, as I said, lots of people have mental health struggles at some time at some point in their lives, but so few of them, um, are willing to talk about it, um, partly because there’s a stigma, partly because, you know, what’s the point?

Um, but yeah, you’re not one of those people and I’m really happy about that. Um, can you tell me a little bit about the struggle that brought you to this point? First tracking happiness, doing the interview with me and now on the podcast.

Kyle: Yeah, so for me, I didn’t know at first that I was living with multiple mental health conditions. I had chronic migraine. For about five years, I had severe migraines that would last for days, sometimes weeks. They were super severe. I was bedridden at times when I was, it started in 10th grade of high school. I went to a number of doctors, they couldn’t figure out what it was. This was [00:07:00] 2008 or so through 2012. And then finally I went to a doctor at my university and they recommended that I see a psychiatrist at our university. And that psychiatrist within about two minutes said, it sounds like you have anxiety and OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder.

Hugo: Two minutes.

Kyle: what’s, two minutes, literally two minutes, she’s like, oh yeah, this is anxiety, OCD. And I wasn’t super familiar with those. I was familiar with OCD and sense of hand washing and habits and

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Kyle: But I wasn’t familiar with like the connection between mental health and physical health.

This was the early 2010s. People weren’t discussing that. And as soon as we started treating the anxiety and OCD, my migraines dissipated.

Hugo: Oh wow.

Kyle: I maybe get one a month, every few months, and they’re far less severe. I can still operate. Maybe they’re now tension headaches often, and that was my journey to recognizing that I had these mental health conditions that likely been there [00:08:00] since I was a young child. And now, if I had went to the doctor, it likely would have been observed a lot quicker now when you go to a lot of doctor’s appointments. They have an anxiety scale, depression scale, they ask. But back then, it just wasn’t something that was discussed. If you were having a headache, let’s look at the headache. Um, and not connecting the two of them. And that was my introduction to the mental health system and learning more about my own mental health. No,

Hugo: the dream diagnosis, diagnosis. Sorry. Um, like you entered the, the, the office and within two minutes you have a diagnosis. Was it, did it feel easy to you at the time?

Kyle: I think looking back, it sounds easy, but it was, there was five years of doctor’s appointments

Hugo: Okay.

Kyle: going to primary care providers, going to a neurologist, trying to figure all this out, trying tons of medications to treat the headaches. without figuring out what was [00:09:00] underlying that.

What was the root cause of all this?

Hugo: Yeah.

Kyle: once I did start treating the anxiety and OCD with medication and therapy and self care at health, but it wasn’t overnight where the migraines went away. It took several years to start treating them. So looking back, if we kind of zoom out, um, it was helpful and it definitely worked, but it wasn’t an overnight process.

It definitely took five years to get diagnosed and then quite a few years to to the point where I am now. And it’s an ongoing journey of recovery. It’s a lifelong journey, I believe.

Hugo: It’s like the quote, right? Um, it took me five years to become an overnight success. Like your version of that is, uh, it took me five years to get a two minute diagnosis.

Kyle: Yes, and it’s wild. And I resentful at first, to be honest. I was like, why didn’t no one say anything? But there just wasn’t that awareness back then. And, um, the doctor, the primary care doctor I went to was great. He saw me often when I had [00:10:00] migraines, and he’s like, oh, if there’s a wait, let me know. He was helpful. and it just wasn’t something that was discussed as much back then, mental health and all that. And then once we were able to look at it, he was super helpful, but that connection just wasn’t there as much back then. And now there’s a lot more awareness, which I appreciate. That’s why I share my story.

Hugo: Yeah.

Kyle: a number of people reach out and say, Hey, I have headaches. I have migraines. I have these symptoms. physically. Maybe that’s part of going on. Let me look at the mental health aspects. And I think there’s more awareness around it now, but a lot of people also, don’t always, they’re not always able to get to that root cause of what’s going on or not right away because no one’s told them, hey, do you think there’s something else going on here?

A migraine is not just a migraine sometimes.

Hugo: So this is already, I want to print this on a poster and hang it on top of a building. Like this is the point of this podcast. So I hope. I pray that some listeners out there who are facing similar struggles, but have no idea what’s the root [00:11:00] issue of that struggle, like they hear you say this and it’s like, ah, so this physical issue connects to a mental issue, then connect the dots.

And then that is such a huge step, but you only are able to connect the dots if someone shows you, um, yeah.

Kyle: of that was through that doctor, part of it was through therapy and being able to look underneath the hood and seeing what’s going on. And like you said, with the careers, that’s why I love my work as a coach, is to be able to look under the hood and say, why do you keep being unhappy in your career? Why do you keep being dissatisfied with your boss? Yes, there’s bosses that are difficult, jobs that are difficult, but us looking at, okay, what’s happening here? What’s in my control? What’s going on there? And doing some observation. I’m not a doctor, but I say, how can we diagnose you, um, in a nonmedical way to see what’s going on here in your career or in your life, and address that root cause and figure out. What we can focus on and fix.

Hugo: [00:12:00] Exactly. You’re like the guy you ask for the rest directions and then you’re like, ah, go, go left here and then you’ll find what you’re looking for.

Kyle: Exactly. I describe it as the co pilot. Like, my clients are driving their life, their career, and then I’m sitting in the kind of, um, passenger seat saying, okay, we need to go left or right, or hey, hey, you keep going left and left is not working, so maybe we can go right or try straight and figuring out what’s going on here and what would be helpful if what you’ve done before isn’t working.

Hugo: Yeah. Nice. Yeah. I like it. So, so, all right. So I started with migraines in high school, lasted for five years. And then at some point you, uh, you had someone tell you, um, Officially that you were struggling with anxiety and OCD.

Kyle: hmm. Mm hmm.

Hugo: what happened after?

Kyle: After that, I started getting treatment right away. I started taking medication for it.

Hugo: Okay.

Kyle: give specific names because [00:13:00] each person, their journey is going to be different. I will share that over time, it’s changed. So I

Hugo: The medication.

Kyle: of. The medication

Hugo: Yeah. Oh, nice. Yeah. Oh

Kyle: to check in and see what will work best. of it’s been medication. Part of it’s been therapy. I’ve been in therapy 12 years now. I’m going to a mental health therapist. Um, part of it’s been self care. So those basics, like getting enough sleep, drinking enough water, exercising.

I don’t like sweating. That’s something I’m trying to get through. I found Pilates about six months ago and I’m enjoying that. So, practicing that self care, and then the fourth thing is community, having that community around me of people who are also living with mental health conditions, and just family and friends I can turn to and say, Hey, here’s what I’m struggling with, or here’s what I’m dealing with. I want to share with you what’s going on and be able to get support from them and knowing that I’m [00:14:00] not alone on this journey, even though it can feel lonely sometimes.

Hugo: yeah. Yeah. You bet. Yeah. Yeah. So without judgment, being able to just express yourself.

Kyle: Mm hmm.

Hugo: Um,

Kyle: And I think that’s important. And having those multiple tools, so then if one of them fails or does not work, you still have those other legs to stand on.

Hugo: yeah, exactly. Yeah. Nice. So, so, um, all right. I think I’ll, I’ll, I want to get to those four things you basically mentioned, right? The four things that helped you overcome or live with the OCD and the anxiety. But first, first a step,

Kyle: Mm

Hugo: little step back. Um, so anxiety to me sounds like the kind of struggle that is, um, you know, Not black or white.

It’s not as if, Oh, you’re, you are struggling with general anxiety disorder and no, you’re not. It’s basically like this whole gradient, right? Um, just speaking from my own experience. Yeah, I feel anxious [00:15:00] sometimes and I don’t have a single friend or colleague who hasn’t ever felt anxious. Um, but so what, that makes it more difficult in my opinion to, to understand, like, all right, when is this something that I want to get help with?

Um, what, what’s your take on that?

Kyle: Yeah, I, I can’t speak to what, um, would make it a diagnosis. What I can share is, if it’s something that’s impairing your day to day living, your day to day work, I always think it’s helpful to speak to a provider, to speak to someone you trust. that’s what I think is important. So I’m a coach, and when I work with clients, I always let them know I don’t treat mental health. But if their anxiety or depression or other, any other feeling or emotion or behavior is impairing your day to day work or life, I think that’s, to get help. It’s normal for all of us to feel anxious, sad, happy, mad, all the emotions. then if you’re like, oh, I’m feeling sad more [00:16:00] often than feels typical, or this is making it difficult to get out of bed, or to work, or to concentrate. That’s really important. Let’s say a loved one dies. It’s normal to be sad or to not be

Hugo: Mm hmm.

Kyle: properly for a little bit, but if it’s extending beyond a typical time frame or interfering with your day to day living or work, that’s when typically you’ll want to see someone who’s a trained provider who can support you.

Hugo: Yeah.

Kyle: really what I consider, at least from my personal experience, the line where like, okay, I need to get help. This isn’t just normal anxiety or stress of being a human and The world.

Hugo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you put, uh, there’s a saying in the Netherlands where you hit the nail on the head. And as I say this now, I think that’s, that’s an English. That’s that you use, you guys use that

Kyle: Yeah.

Hugo: Yeah. See, this is where my inexperience as a podcast host shines through once more. Um, so, but yeah, so.

[00:17:00] Um, I like what you’re saying and kind of like to wedge myself in this, in this perspective a little. I’ve been journaling for, for over 10 years now. And what I do every day is, and that’s what the name tracking happiness comes from. I track my happiness every day.

Kyle: Mm

Hugo: with it, I track the things that significant, uh, had a significant impact on my happiness.

So on some days, um, and we can circle back to this if there’s time, but I’ve had, I’ve, I’ve switched careers, uh, about five years ago, I guess now. Um, because I noticed that, all right, every day, over and over again, I’m writing down how my work has had a negative impact on my happiness. Geez, it’s not just a single bad day.

This is a, a, a trend. It’s not a trend. It’s something structural that, that I will never change. I need to change my environment anyway. So that’s how I noticed like, all right, this is significant. And I feel like for you, [00:18:00] how you described it. If you, for the listeners out there, if you are feeling like, Hey, am I struggling with anxiety or OCD?

Uh, you have to wonder, is it significant? Is it? Uh, not just a, not just a single day or a single week. Is it just something that’s become consistent in your life? And if that’s so, then yeah, there’s no harm in seeking help. Well,

Kyle: Is it significant? Um, is it pervasive? Is it happening? On ongoing? I think those are really great ways to describe it.

Hugo: thanks. So, uh, it’s, it’s nice for me to get lost in a very long sentence and then circle back to where I started. And then have you tell me like, yeah, that, that’s right. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: it’s good. I think it’s helpful because sometimes people don’t know it. Um, I’m always mindful of the word normal, but what’s a normal, um, experience? Like, is this what people experience? And sometimes it is. [00:19:00] Sometimes with Instagram and TikTok and stuff, it’s like, oh my gosh, here’s all these terms, people who are not medical professionals or who don’t have training or certification or credentials in mental health are saying, here’s all these things, how to diagnose yourself.

No. can be helpful to say, like, here’s how you know whether it’s something that you should get more attention,

Hugo: Yeah.

Kyle: focus more attention on, and maybe talk to someone.

Hugo: So, so how, what were the signs for you? Um, so you, you went in after five years, you got your two minute diagnosis. Um, but what were the signs prior to that for anxiety and OCD? Mm

Kyle: like talking about that. It was just an article with GoodRx about living with OCD. They featured four different people that lived with obsessive compulsive disorder.

Hugo: hmm. Mm

Kyle: a lot of behavioral stuff. It wasn’t a lot of compulsions. Instead, it was more obsessive thought. ruminations, a lot of anxiety and catastrophizing.

Here’s kind of the [00:20:00] worst case scenario and getting stuck on a loop and continually thinking about it. So not just typical stress. Or worry that people might have, but constantly checking lists and feeling like I was forgetting something or had to think about things. There were some physical manifestations younger, like making sure light switches were off or making sure things were physically straight.

Hugo: hmm.

Kyle: though, it didn’t interfere with my day to day life. It was just kind of quirks that Kyle had. Um, there was like a brick I remember in our living room that I always had to touch when I walked past it. So back then it was

Hugo: Okay. Yeah.

Kyle: I don’t know if it was. But as I got older, it turned into things that were interfering with my day to day life, making it difficult to sleep because I would get out of bed feeling like I had forgotten something

Hugo: Hmm.

Kyle: and over and over.

I constantly felt worry, and I couldn’t even feel like I could be present because I was so in my head thinking about things. So for me, it was a lot of ruminating and a lot of thinking about things and not being able to let [00:21:00] them go.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I think this is good too. make it make it relatable to listeners out there who are also well, like some of the things you mentioned are, I think, things that other people can recognize themselves in, like over overly worrying about some future events is something you hear a lot, but at some point it takes over your mind and it’s you’re unable to divert your thoughts somewhere else.

And the way I’m hearing this now, that’s the point where you have to ask, Hey, is this something that I need to Analyze.

Kyle: Yeah, and as you said, I think the significant and pervasive, I’m a career coach, so it’s normal for people to be nervous about an interview the day before.

Hugo: Mm hmm.

Kyle: you’re you have anxiety necessarily or OCD to be nervous the day before. That’s a human reaction to a really stressful event. But if you notice this about, you know, Things that you shouldn’t necessarily be stressed or nervous about, then maybe it’s something to be, um, [00:22:00] out for.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well put. So the four things you mentioned. I’m going to see if I can remember them therapy, self improvement. That’s that’s one and two

Kyle: Mm hmm.

Hugo: three is community or that was your fourth, but I’m skipping to the last one and another one in there was medication. I suppose, right? But if I remember your interview from the top of my head, there was a fifth one, uh, Disney,

Kyle: Maybe there was. Disney,

Hugo: Disney

Kyle: a fifth one. Um, I would put that under self improvement, but I think it’s Disney, so it deserves its own category as well.

Hugo: just just for our listeners, because I’ve, I’ve been to Disney. I’ve, I’ve been to Disney once in, in Florida, in Orlando. Um, and. everywhere around that area, all the Americans told me, Oh, Disney, you gotta go. It’s, it’s so good. And I was like, Oh, we have theme parks in Europe. Like, like what’s the big deal? [00:23:00] Uh, you have Mickey Mouse.

That’s the only difference. But, um, yeah, I can see how, uh, people go there to just rewind, unwind and relax. But, but what, what’s your, what’s your Disney backstory?

Kyle: It’s my partner is a lot of it, and it’s actually interesting. We like very different parts of it. I work with mostly executives, so I love the logistics how they orchestrate 80, 000 people through the park. How they

Hugo: Every day.

Kyle: every day, how they

Hugo: Yeah.

Kyle: ways to make money from nothing. Like, nowhere else do you wear ears on your head.

You obviously do. People think you’re silly, but you go to Disneyland and people will pay 30 to wear ears on their head and then people click dozens or hundreds. And they just make money and have these branding ideas. They’re like, oh, let’s have people skip the line and charge them.

Hugo: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: All

Hugo: From a business standpoint. Yeah.

Kyle: from a business standpoint, and then the people who skip the line are the ones who are going to spend more money in our store, so we’re going to [00:24:00] get even more money from them. So it’s just genius, and I love looking at all that and seeing that,

Hugo: Can I, can I just, just join in here?

Kyle: everything.

Hugo: Um, have you read the book of, uh, Bob, Bob Iger I don’t know. I’m not sure how to pronounce his last name. Like the currency, uh, CEO, he was, and then another guy came in.

Kyle: my partner read it. I haven’t read it,

Hugo: Ah, that’s that he, he, he uncovers so much of that. everything that goes on. It was a really good read, in my opinion, uh, great book.

Um, but yeah, like the business point of view from, from, you know, how do you like only that part of Disney is already worth going almost, but then your partner is, is, has another view on that, I suppose.

Kyle: Yeah, he loves the parades, the rides, the food, the merchandise, all those things that draw people in that’s only Disney. He went more as a child than I did. Um, so it’s just that nostalgia those memories and being reconnected with family and his mind and joys.[00:25:00]

Hugo: So it’s a pretty much the normal reason for somebody to want to go to Disney.

Kyle: the more typical reason, yeah.

Hugo: Yeah. Um, okay. So, yeah, so basically this, you, uh, you’ve got a past that lets you go whenever you want, I suppose. And that’s a part of your self improvement or

Kyle: Exactly, exactly. So that’s part of it. We’ve started Pilates, other adventures on Saturday. We used to go like every two weeks to Disneyland with Move Dice. So this is a lot. Let’s try some new things. My partner’s been coming up with new ideas as we go. to different places in L. A. or try different adventures.

We did a hot air So we’ve tried a lot of things,

Hugo: Yeah,

Kyle: since

Hugo: that’s wonderful. Yeah. All right. So, okay. So we’ve got two out of the way. I’m curious about the other three then. Um, so, so therapy, you started therapy. I think you said 12 years ago. Um,

Kyle: about 12 years ago.

Hugo: Yeah, so has it been an [00:26:00] easy journey to find the right therapist?

Kyle: It is not. I’ve had some who are really great, others who are not. When I was in university, each year you would get a different therapist, so it was really challenging

Hugo: year?

Kyle: Each

Hugo: Ah. Oh, yeah.

Kyle: Well, there’s two different types. The University Career Center is very challenging to get in. And then there was master’s students in the counseling program, you could see, who offered like sessions for 10 a session. And then, um, they were like recorded and they went back to their teacher. And sometimes they were good and sometimes they weren’t and they would change every year or every semester.

Hugo: Yeah.

Kyle: I remember I had one who was really great and then another one who was not a fit. it was challenging finding those right ones. And then with insurance, once I left university, it was very difficult to find someone. So I ended up just paying out of pocket for my current one. And I’ve

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Kyle: for maybe seven years now.

Hugo: And that’s one [00:27:00] of the downsides of the US and California, I guess. Like, those things drain your savings by a lot, I guess.

Kyle: It’s, it’s so expensive trying to find one. And,

Hugo: Yeah.

Kyle: like my insurance provider said, here’s a list. And I called all 30 and all 30 weren’t accepting patients, or didn’t respond. It’s really unacceptable, the current state of health services

Hugo: Yeah.

Kyle: and in

Hugo: All right. So,

Kyle: hmm.

Hugo: and that’s, that’s why I asked this is because, um, I’ve interviewed over 150 people now. Uh, and most like at the top of the list of what has helped those people is therapy. Um, but then therapy is not the, you know, you like, you flick a switch and kablam, you’re, you’re cured. No, you have to find, you have to, give an effort and find the right therapist be willing to to invest before it pays off.

Um, yeah, that’s, [00:28:00] I’ve not heard a single, uh, not heard a single person say I was great from the first minute I walked in and I’ve been happy ever since. Um,

Kyle: Yeah, it takes time to find that right person, and once you find that person to build that rapport, have that trust. able to share about yourself. It’s definitely a journey

Hugo: yeah, yeah, yeah,

Kyle: kid and my parents were going through divorce or something like that and I encourage people to try giving it a second or third try because it does take time.

I think it’s like a barber or anything else. You have to find that person you click with and who understands you and um, make sure there’s that connection if they’re not the right person. Trying a few people out until you find that person where you gel together.

Hugo: yeah. Nice. Wow. It’s great to hear you say that. Um, Yeah. Okay. Um, community. Well, I think that one is quite obvious, right?

Kyle: Yeah, it’s having people around you [00:29:00] that you can turn to and be open and honest and saying here’s what I’m dealing with and sometimes wanting advice and sometimes just saying, you know, I want to event ring or I want to share what I’m dealing with and being able to get that listening ear when something’s going on that’s challenging.

It’s really helpful.

Hugo: Are you, are you extroverted or introverted or

Kyle: very introverted.

Hugo: Okay. Yeah.

Kyle: introverted. People are often surprised if they don’t know me well, but those who know me well know that I really thrive on deep one to one conversations. I do a lot of public speaking. I’ve been on stages with 500 people, lots of podcasts, and I’ve been on TV, radio, but doing

Hugo: might be my, my, my most high profile guest. Uh,

Kyle: no, but doing the Afterwards, that small talk is not something I enjoy. I

Hugo: yeah, yeah.

Kyle: those deeper conversations and getting to it. That’s what lights me up and what makes me excited.

Hugo: Yeah, nice. Yeah. So, okay. Um, [00:30:00] community. Yeah. So even if you, well, the reason I asked is like, uh, you want a place where you can, um, just vent if you need to. Uh, for me, that place is my, my partner.

Kyle: Mm-Hmm.

Hugo: She can endure me just yap and yap and yap about stuff. And if she’s not available, I have my journal where I just write and write and write and just dump all my thoughts in there.

But just that process is so valuable.

Kyle: Yeah.

Hugo: And I think everyone should have a place where you can just talk or write down or at least just allow your thoughts to leave your mind without being judged for it.

Kyle: Mm hmm.

Hugo: Yeah.

Kyle: think finding that for you, some people it’s writing, some people it’s talking, it’s meditation,

Hugo: Yeah.

Kyle: finding what works for you and trying things, and this is my kind of four, with Disneyland, five things, but finding your own recipe that works for you and the right quantity, the right quality, the right [00:31:00] combination that works for you, because each person it’s going to be so different.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So, and now I want to ask you about career coaching. Uh,

Kyle: Mm

Hugo: this is a fun, a fun question. I always, and that’s the thing that I said at the start, I’ve, I’ve had a, a previous podcast that I recorded. It was with Andy Johnson. He has had suffered a car crash, which as a result, uh, uh, he suffered from traumatic brain injury.

And

Kyle: Mm hmm.

Hugo: that changed his whole life. Like it was basically just a, a tipping point of his life. Um, it went from that direction completely in the opposite direction. But as a result, he found what gave him a purpose now. And that is, you know, he’s now a therapist. And that experience has helped him. others and I have a feeling this is going to be a common theme throughout this podcast, but, um, you have a similar experience, I suppose, like you, you deal [00:32:00] with anxiety and OCD and your experience with, uh, you know, overcoming and learning to live with those things help you become a better coach for others.

Kyle: Mm hmm. Yeah, and I find for me the mental health aspects usually are underlying theme. Rarely people come to me and say I’m struggling with my mental health or confidence or imposter syndrome or something like that. Oftentimes they come to me wanting a new job, um, wanting to do change within their current company, maybe they’re having a difficult boss or they feel unsatisfied with their life. And then as we start digging, looking maybe at their resume or their LinkedIn or doing interview prep, all these other things start surfacing.

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Kyle: our work together and that gets so exciting for me. So usually it kind of seeps through the cracks in different spots and they keep saying, Oh, I realized I really struggle to be confident here or here or here.

You know what Kyle, I keep just, I’m so anxious that I’m ruining this interview [00:33:00] or I’m not reaching out to people cause I’m so anxious and these things come up throughout. And again, I remind people I’m not a therapist and sometimes we’ll even say, Hey, this is a good topic to go discuss with your therapist.

But

Hugo: Mm hmm.

Kyle: we got to focus on those actions. And reframing some of these situations and saying, what’s in your control in this job search, in your career, in your life that we can focus on? I, my dissertation was on mental health storytelling. So it’s fun to see when their stories around mental health come out and the role it plays in our job search because mental, everyone has mental health, whether you have a mental health condition that’s diagnosed or not.

We all have mental health fun to see when Um, the role it plays in people’s careers.

Hugo: Yeah. There are so many things that I want to ask follow up questions about. Mental health storytelling. You wrote a thesis about mental health storytelling, which is about. Can you tell, like,

Kyle: yeah, um, so my doctorate was in [00:34:00] education. I focused on how college students navigated, um, their college experience when it came to accessing mental health services and the role storytelling played. And I saw, which we weren’t surprised about, but there wasn’t research on this, that those that were able to share their story had better experiences.

So when they were able to share their story with peers, with family members, of that, they had better experiences, so I developed a program for students to share their stories, and there’s this pilot, um, I was going to pilot it, and then another organization, I was able to partner with them to do some work around that to help people share their stories, because there’s solace, people feel solace and better when they’re able to share their mental health stories, and there wasn’t research that really dove into So the impact of this?

There was some research in different areas, but not around the impact on college students navigating the mental health

Hugo: I need you to send me a link to that book. To that PDF, and then I can use that to basically support the entire idea of this podcast.[00:35:00]

Kyle: Yeah, because it’s powerful, and there’s research that shows it’s helpful when you share your mental health story, and it’s helpful for your mental health. It’s not just people sharing to share, but there can be positive impact

Hugo: Yeah, it’s like you’re, you’re figuring out this puzzle by telling your story. That’s the way I like to think of it, like by expressing yourself in a way as if you’re having a conversation, leads you to think about it differently in a way that you don’t usually do. And that helps you place things into perspective a little bit, or at least that’s, that’s my, uh, tiny little shiver of experience on that.

But yeah, very interesting. Hey, one more question. I think I’m gonna, um, we’re 35 minutes in and this could take three hours, I think. But just for the sake of keeping this a little bit digestible. Um, you mentioned you are a recovering workaholic. I haven’t touched. I haven’t asked about that. But can you tell me a [00:36:00] little bit about that?

Because I feel like that has to do with the thing like with the work you did prior to becoming a career coach.

Kyle: Yes, I used to struggle with work addiction. I loved work. I still love work. But it was challenging for me to find joy outside of work. It’s something I brought to therapy a lot, saying, How do people find things they like more than work? I loved my work, and I still love my work being a career coach, and it was a journey of finding things outside of work like Disneyland, like going on adventures with my partner, like looking at systems and saying, hey, how does that work?

That bring me as much joy as my career does, and I work with tech executives. So a lot of them also struggle with work addiction. They struggle with working so many hours and saying, this is my career. I’m putting other things on the back burner and ignoring them. Um, so a lot of my own work has been to navigate that and. figure out those underlying causes and work less and have a healthy relationship with work. And then a lot of work with my [00:37:00] clients is them realizing, hmm, maybe I’m addicted a bit to work and how do I have a healthier relationship with my work and my career.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah. Super valuable. Um, yeah, I’m 100 percent convinced that you’re being great help to the people that you coach. Um, yeah. Um, Just one more question, I guess. Well, well, to two more questions. Tiny questions. Um, one for those who don’t have Disney Disneyland in their proximity.

Kyle: Mm hmm.

Hugo: What should they do if they are feeling like, Hey, I just have my work.

And what else can I do to find the joy that I normally get from work?

Kyle: I, one thing I like doing is asking people around you for some feedback. Asking some people around you, hey, what are some hobbies you think I might enjoy? And sometimes it can be difficult for us, so when you’re stuck, I encourage people, I encourage my clients to do that. [00:38:00] When I was stuck, I asked people for that, and someone recommended I go back to school, so that’s why I got a doctorate, because a bunch of people said I should go back to school. Um,

Hugo: Wow.

Kyle: one of my hobbies for a while that I enjoyed. Someone else is like, Oh, what if you go wine tasting and explore different wines? You’re in Santa Barbara. So I do that for fun sometimes.

Hugo: Nice.

Kyle: ask people around you for ideas if you feel stuck. Um, that’s, I think that can be really powerful anytime you’re stuck too.

If you don’t know what to do for a living, you can ask people as well. But I love a really mini 360 whenever you’re stuck to just take the pressure off and have other people do some other work for you.

Hugo: Yeah, no, that, that sounds like a great tip. Yeah. So to those listeners, viewers out there, just, just do that. I feel like that could be helpful regardless of what you’re feeling or where you are in life. Um, yeah. And just one more question. Uh, we record this on a Friday. Tomorrow is Saturday. Are you going to work?

Kyle: [00:39:00] No, I’m not working. I’m actually taking a course. I’m taking another course. It’s the last of the course. It’s a systemic constellations and coaching course. It’s very interesting looking at how these different systems relate to each other, and how to coach people around them. So it’s been my kind of hobby right now. And then my partner and I might be going down to LA again, um, as well. So deciding if we’re going to do

Hugo: Going, going to Disney or riding space mountain?

Kyle: He loves space. I’m not a big space mountain person,

Hugo: Amazing.

Kyle: Every time we go, he wants to write it.

Hugo: All right. Well, um, I think that’s a good place to wrap this up. Um, yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing your experiences. Um, very inspiring. Um, love what you do. Love the way you talk about your story. Um, so yeah, thanks for, uh, for being here. Just, just one more question. Now, uh, if people want to reach out to you, want to find you online or anywhere, uh, where can they find you?

Kyle: Yes. My website, it’s caffeinatedkyle. [00:40:00] and then LinkedIn, Kyle Elliott with two L’s and two T’s. I spend a good amount of time there as well.

Hugo: All right. So I’ll make sure to drop those anywhere in the show notes or in the comments or whatever. So people can hit you up. Uh, well now here comes the awkward outro. I have never practiced, uh, a serious outro yet. So in every other episode, this is just a very awkward part of the podcast. Um, so yeah, here we go.

Uh, thanks for having been on the tracking happiness podcast. Um, Yeah, it’s been great. Uh, enjoy your day in Los Angeles. Um,

Kyle: Awesome. you for having me.

Well, there you have it. That was another episode of the Tracking Happiness podcast. Now, if you liked this episode, please leave a review of this podcast on the platform you’re listening to. It will really help me share these stories with more people. If you didn’t like this episode, yeah, just disregard all that.

If you want to learn more about my guest, do check out [00:41:00] any links in the notes below. Or if you want to be a guest on the podcast, please go to trackinghappiness. com slash share your story. And before you know it, you will help others overcome their own struggles of mental health. Lastly, I hope you have a great day wherever you are.

See you in the next one. Bye bye.

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