Episode #13: Kathy Mou

Hugo: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of the tracking happiness podcast.

Uh, today I have here with me, uh, Kathy Mou. Hi, Katie. Happy to have you here.

Kathy: Hi, I’m so honored and happy to be here. Cause we actually wrote an article or I did an article with you and then now I actually get to talk to you in person about it, which is so cool.

Hugo: It’s, it’s really cool. Uh, it’s been I guess a year of

Kathy: Yeah.

Hugo: I, I think, um, yeah, so

Kathy: think so.

Hugo: time flies

Kathy: has changed since then.

Hugo: A lot has changed Oh, well, well, maybe we can get into that. If, uh, if it’s, if it comes up, you know,

Kathy: yeah.

Hugo: if it comes up, like sometimes I chat for minutes about, um, I dunno, geography or. Well, all kinds of stuff.

And then. 10 minutes in, I’m like, Oh, wait, we have to talk about mental health. Um, I do just want to ask a first question, which I already know the answer to, but you’re, where are you [00:01:00] from?

Kathy: I am from California.

Hugo: So, so,

Kathy: California.

Hugo: So so to me, that’s, that’s not specific. I’m from the Netherlands, which is like five makes up a 5 percent of California. So. You saying you’re from California, to me it sounds like you could, you might be from Spain or Norway or Germany.

Kathy: So I’m from San Jose, California. So it’s

Hugo: Oh, that’s northern California.

Oh, so that’s near, Oh, wait, wait. Okay, so here is a backstory or a little side note that I think is worthy of being brought up. I once was in Costa Rica, where the capital is San Jose. And my job, my job for the trip was to get a rental car. And the day before arriving in San Jose, Costa Rica, I checked my email.

And I found out that there is another San Jose in California. That’s what, that’s the old. And so, yeah, what happened is I had to scramble, hurry up to find [00:02:00] it was

Kathy: no.

Hugo: really embarrassing. And I lost a lot of credits there. But Yeah. that’s how I know San Jose. I’m sure it’s a nice place though.

Kathy: Um, it’s much different before. It’s like developed so fast, you know, within the years because it’s Silicon Valley area, you know, like with the

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Kathy: stuff. Like, so different than when I grew up as

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: so. But yes, I still love, I still love California, you know, in general, so.

Hugo: So you’ve been there.

Kathy: leave California.

Hugo: It’s so big and well, you said it, but it’s so sunny and beautiful weather all year around. You’ve got some great national parks just around the corner.

Kathy: Yeah. But I actually don’t take advantage of the national parks. Like I should, but I don’t, which is something like I want to get into. Um, but maybe when [00:03:00] my daughter’s a little older, it’s kind of

Hugo: Have

Kathy: to,

Hugo: you been though, like, to,

Yosemite or Sequoia?

Kathy: Oh yeah. I’ve been

Hugo: okay, okay.

Kathy: kid, like I went with my parents, like camping and stuff as a kid, but not. yet with my own little

Hugo: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, alright. Wow, nice. So, San Jose. You’ve been born and raised in San Jose?

Kathy: Um, not San Jose. So outskirts like the suburban town, Morgan Hill. So I was born and raised in Morgan Hill. And then I went to college UCLA for four years and came back and lived in San Jose. So, and

Hugo: Ah, cool.

Kathy: since.

Hugo: Nice. Yeah.

All right. Yeah. So, so I’m from the Netherlands. Uh, well, to the listeners who have listened to any previous episode or have heard me talk, like the Dutch accent is pretty thick, I guess, but the Netherlands is like, like if you drive one hour to the east, Or to the west. You are still in the [00:04:00] center of California.

You have not moved a lit, you have not moved an inch on the map. Basically . If I travel an hour south or, or east or west, I’m either in England, Belgium, or in Germany.

Kathy: How cool. That is so cool.

Hugo: It, it, it is pretty cool though. Yeah. Yeah. It’s one of the advantages of living in a very small country. It, it, it’s easy to, uh, have that holiday feeling, you know?

Kathy: Yeah.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah.

Kathy: It’s one of the bigger States like other States. I know like, The Midwest or whatever, my cousins or in the south, like they go from, you know, state to state within hours. And I’m like, whoa. It takes, like from Northern California to Southern it takes at least five to six hours depending how fast you drive.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah.

Kathy: whole, pretty much half a day you know, to

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah. it’s huge.

Kathy: that. You can just [00:05:00] go from different countries or different states within an hour. It’s pretty

Hugo: Yeah. That’s pretty cool.

Yeah. Anyway, before this turns into another 10 minute bramble about geography. Um, yeah. Mental health stories, um, learning about them, uh, destigmatizing mental health, like talking about the things that are usually left unspoken. That’s what this podcast is about and you have a really interesting story.

Um,

Kathy: Yes.

Hugo: can you tell me a little bit about that?

Kathy: So, I did go through a really, really tough time in my life, which really caused mental health for me, and I actually was depressed during this time, so my story, I had infertility. So I got married with my husband in 2019 and naive me thinking, you know, this is what we’re taught in the U S like, Oh, if you’re doing it, you’re going to get pregnant like right away.

This is what they teach you. So I was like, okay, I’m going to track this. It’s going to happen. And then we’re going to like have a kid. [00:06:00]

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: That was not the case at all. Um, yeah, it was actually two years of having to suffer with infertility. And when you go through infertility, it’s a lot of roller coaster of emotions and like mental, you know, Um, instability all the time because you’re wishing and hoping for a certain result that you can’t really control.

Um, and

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: just got depressed because month after month I kept taking pregnancy tests only to get negative results. And you know, it crushes you literally inside. And

Hugo: Uh

Kathy: thing I wanted to be in, you know, ever in my whole life was to be a mom. And at that point, I really thought it wasn’t going to happen for me.

And it sucks because in the U. S., they don’t teach us a lot about women’s health care. So I ended up finding out that I had endometriosis, um, that actually caused my infertility. And it’s just a funny thing. frustrating, um, two years. [00:07:00] I ended up going through IVF2, which is another emotional mental health rollercoaster of

Hugo: huh. Yeah.

Kathy: it’s so costly too that, you know, we actually did one round, only got one good embryo. And then after that, I was, you know, I miscarried. So it did work for like, I think a week or two. And then I miscarried and I was like, you know what? Like, I am just so done. I was just, you know, so, so sad and depressed.

I was like, literally, I felt like I was, I gave up and I’m

Hugo: and that happened in the span of two years. Oh, yeah. Wow.

Kathy: I’m not a person that really gives up easily, you know, and so that’s why in my mind, I was like, I did everything. Um, so like the first year in the US, they tell you, you have to try naturally for a year to try to

Hugo: Okay.

Kathy: then after the year, they’re like, okay, then you can say you’re, you have infertility issues. So we were trying for a full year. [00:08:00] So that first year, I didn’t really do much. I just kept taking pregnancy tests, right? And then in 2020 or was when I went hardcore. Like, I tried everything in my power because, right, like, that cycle of sadness and crying every month was not doing anything.

Yeah, I changed my diet. I wanted to try everything. I did acupuncture. I actually got a therapist to help through, you know, get me through this really sad time and hard

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah.

Kathy: have really supportive family, but they just don’t get it. Like my sisters got pregnant really fast.

Hugo: Hmm.

Kathy: and got pregnant and I was like, oh, that’s gonna be me.

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: was like the only one who suffered with infertility with like my friends and family and so I just really felt like alone. So I really want to try everything and It actually took a whole year and then [00:09:00] finally when I like surrendered and was like, I, I tried everything, I’m just gonna take a break, you know, after the miscarriage and then I got pregnant naturally with my husband.

So

Hugo: Wow.

Kathy: you know, like, you just never know. But

Hugo: Life is unpredictable.

Kathy: the hard times in your life teaches you lessons that you truly need in order for. God or, you know, higher source to give you what you truly want, like they’re trying to prepare you for it.

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: so, during that time, um, you know, of course when you’re in a depressed state, you don’t see the positive, right?

You’re always like in

Hugo: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s Like, it’s like you start going down a spiral and everything that happens around you is just kind of confirming that, that what you see is just negative all around and, yeah.

Kathy: Yeah You get literally trapped in this negative mindset and like I was I was trapped for so long and I didn’t even like Why and [00:10:00] how I was perceiving life. I was like life sucks like God is punishing me. What did I do to deserve this? You know, like you just keep playing and saying these things. And I just felt so sick of being like that for a whole year of feeling like helpless.

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: I was like, that’s not really me. But again, when you’re depressed, you don’t like know how to get yourself out of that, right? Like,

Hugo: yeah, yeah.

Kathy: stuck. And then

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Kathy: get worse and worse, right? Like you just decline.

Hugo: Yeah. So, so just a quick question. Um,

like endometriosis, am I pronouncing that well?

Kathy: Yes.

Hugo: That’s, that’s for the record, that’s the hardest word I’ve ever done on the podcast as a Dutch speaker, You know, um, it’s the last time I’ll try, but, but can you tell a little bit like for, for the listeners out there who don’t know what it is?

What, what does that mean?

Kathy: So, endometriosis cells can or endometriosis cells, but endometriosis is a chronic illness or um, [00:11:00] uh, you know, inflammatory disease that causes the insides of your body to like literally feel like it’s burning. Like, you I don’t know how to describe it, but it’s usually in your uterus area or lower abdomen and

Hugo: Okay.

Kathy: feels like it’s burning on fire.

But the thing is, it can affect all, like your whole entire body, but it’s, um, a disease that’s cast as a period type of, um, disease, which is not. So

Hugo: So it’s it’s, it’s like very, painful. Um, yeah.

Kathy: yes,

Hugo: And is it, is it limited to women or Like is it also, uh,

Kathy: So, it’s mainly, so 99 percent right now is related to women, but then

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: new research coming out that men are having endometrial cells to end their bodies, which is wild. So, a lot of people, I guess, never did research about this until, like, I, I believe, like, [00:12:00] four years ago when, like one in ten women have endometriosis.

So that’s a lot of women and I

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: Actually the numbers change to like one in eight or now or something. So what more women are having this um, but again, like I said people Or doctors in the medical system just casts or portrays it as a period problem, which is totally not It’s actually very similar to some Um, cancer, like cancer cells.

Hugo: Oh, okay.

Kathy: you know, like how cancer grows if you activate that cell, due to your, you know, surroundings, like epigenetics and everything else that can activate that, right?

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: Just like endometrial cells. Like, you know, if you have so much toxicity in your life, it can activate it, whatever it may be, stress,

Hugo: Mm hmm.

Kathy: how cancer cells start. So it’s very, very similar to cancer cells. Um, so now

Hugo: So you found out you had that.

on [00:13:00] 2021, two years after. Well. And you got, you finally got the diagnosis. Like, Hey, this is not just like bad luck. There’s a real issue. That’s causing me to have these difficulties.

Kathy: Yeah, and actually, it just felt good to actually get confirmation that

Hugo: yeah.

Kathy: that I wasn’t crazy. Like, I just knew it in my gut. I was like, this doesn’t make sense. Like, there’s something in my body that’s making it very hard for me to conceive or have a, to have a child. Like, there’s no way. I just didn’t understand because I was like, I’m eating healthy.

I work out. I’m doing things that know are healthy for your body, but again, you know, you truly don’t know what happens or what’s going on inside your body You have no idea until things show up

Hugo: Yeah. And so you touched this, uh, you touched upon this briefly, but. Um, throughout this period you tried everything practically and it [00:14:00] cost a lot of money. And now if I know two things about the States, uh, is that one is that there’s, uh, well, medical bills can pile up super fast, like, so I’m, I’m, well, I’m just assuming this, but I felt, I feel like that can be a whole other reason for being depressed and stressed and anxious.

Kathy: Yes um And at this time Money was not an issue because I actually had to move in husband and I moved in with our with my in laws so with his parents so

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Kathy: us be able to like afford IVF and afford the things that We needed for my health at that time. And so, but still, you know, like that’s

Hugo: Yeah,

Kathy: situation when you are married and you

Hugo: You are reducing costs, but there’s a whole host of other issues that

Kathy: Yeah.

Hugo: up.

Kathy: Yeah.

Hugo: Oh wow.

Kathy: about it being like [00:15:00] depressed with, You know, like being around your in laws is tough too. Like you have to put on a face like,

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: okay, but you’re really not okay. You know

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Kathy: lot of people with mental health issues, like show up, like, and try to portray that they are okay, but they’re really not,

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: and

Hugo: you felt that way too. Like as if, as if you had to put on a mask each day when you saw them.

Kathy: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was a more of an internal battle too. It’s like, I really don’t want to talk about this. I don’t really want to talk about, you know, I’m going to give you a grandchild, you know, like in the Asian culture, they always picture you like, when are you having a kid when you’re having a kid?

And that

Hugo: Oh yeah.

Kathy: another add on to the mental health. And it’s like, you know,

Hugo: with two sisters who have like snapped their fingers and whoops, they were pregnant.

Kathy: yeah, yes, yes. So,

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: you know, it’s, it’s just. All the situations around me [00:16:00] was pointing to like, they’re getting everything that they want and I’m not getting anything that I wanted. So that

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: put me in a very depressed state.

But finally, when I, you know, got pregnant, obviously everything started to change like for the better, my mental health got better. Um, and then I just slowly started feeling like myself again, you know, and, um,

Hugo: when, when, how long ago, how long ago are we talking about? Like, um,

Kathy: this is. So, three years ago? Wait, 2024? So 2022. I

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: Like, back to myself.

Hugo: when you, well, I can assume, only assume that you got pregnant naturally. That was a huge moment, but then you’ve gotten nine months of, well, anxiousness about, hey, is this gonna, is this gonna be a successful pregnancy?

Kathy: Yep. Exactly. I was so stressed out because I already had a [00:17:00] miscarriage, so I was like, Oh my gosh, I don’t know. And the sad part is, um, like, you know, you, you have to count every month and every day because you don’t know if it’s going to be viable pregnancy or not. So I was full of anxiety the first time, which people with IV, whoever go through infertility, you really do get scared and you always like, have mental health issues because it’s, you’re always in your mind, you’re always seeing these negative things.

And think that’s why it’s. It’s building that resilience of, let’s change that mindset. Everything’s going to be okay. And everything’s going to turn out the way you want it to. And you just have to believe and trust and it’s a practice for sure. It’s a practice. It’s really

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: Thank You know, I still catch myself all the time being so negative, but you have to, you have to try to change that narrative or else you’re never going to get yourself out of it.

And then you’re just always going to live a very, very um, you know, [00:18:00] sad or depressed life that I don’t think You should be, or anybody should, should want to live that way.

Hugo: Yeah. And so, and so, well, I guess everyone can agree with that, but if someone’s listening or watching this and thinking, hey, I kind of recognize myself in the situation. What helped you, um, well, what helped you turn this around?

Kathy: Yeah. Ooh, good question. There’s a lot of things that you can really do. So I think one of the things that I learned going through infertility was taking care of myself. So a lot of us are people pleasers. I’m a total people pleaser. It’s what I grew up, like, learning, believing that I needed to do that.

Always putting other people first,

Hugo: Is that do you think like you mentioned Asian culture? Like I don’t want to be too stereotypical here, but do you think culture plays a big part in that? Like you, well,

Kathy: so. I believe so. I believe it’s culture and how your parents, [00:19:00] you know, like what they teach you. And so in the Asian culture, everybody. always compared to you always have to be the smartest. You always have to

Hugo: yeah, yeah. Expectations are huge.

Kathy: like you you have to be perceived a certain way and you’re not able to actually truly be who you are, know

Hugo: Yeah,

Kathy: we can’t be loud We can’t say what we want You know and it’s it’s a lot and so that gives you a lot of pressure already as a kid and then you bring that into adulthood it just Amplifies

Hugo: yeah, yeah.

Kathy: know, your belief.

So

Hugo: Yeah. So, So that, that sort of like came out as, as, uh, people pleasing. I interrupted you there. So with people pleasing. Yeah,

Kathy: is because you’re taught, like you have to show other people that I teach you, I taught you to be [00:20:00] this proper, perfect child and everybody’s perceives you this way.

Hugo: yeah,

Kathy: this, you know, and how you act is how parent, you know, like other people see us as, so you have to be this way, you know,

Hugo: yeah, yeah. And so how did you,

Kathy: then you’re

Hugo: yeah.

Kathy: pressure to have A’s and stuff in school. And that’s another, that’s a whole nother thing, right? So

Hugo: And So

how did you, well, that’s, that’s another, another struggle on top of the depression, the infertility, but, um, what, what are things that helped you overcome or live with, uh, learn to live with the struggles that you were dealing with at the time?

Kathy: yeah, so I really believe that through my infertility stage though, it’s through self love. Self love is what I learned. So I actually learned to love myself enough to do the things that made me happy, not what I [00:21:00] thought other people Would think that would make that I would do it and then to make them happy, you know I just focus on myself.

I like literally cut everybody out of my life just to focus on just me

Hugo: Yeah,

Kathy: boundaries up which I am not good at setting boundaries, right when you’re a people pleaser You’re just like yes. Yes. Yes, I can do everything even though when you cannot

Hugo: yeah, yeah.

Kathy: literally said

Hugo: I’ll just chop myself in three pieces and I’ll be everywhere. Okay,

Kathy: actually quit a very stressful job, too. I was in a very stressful job that caused me so much, yeah, stress and time with work. I couldn’t do it, so I actually left that place, too. Yeah, there’s just a lot of things that I just did for myself for once in my life

Hugo: yeah.

Kathy: it

Hugo: How scary was that? Like, was that hard? Or were you, like, was the pain so big that you’re like, Alright, there’s no other option, I just need to do this.

Kathy: It [00:22:00] was so painful that I had to do it. Actually one time I cut my sister my older sister out Um, and that was one of the hardest things I had to do like I actually blocked her I actually blocked her from all social media my phone like I didn’t talk to her And my family is very, very close. We like talk every day.

We text every day, you know, we send memes

Hugo: Yeah,

Kathy: of the hardest things because I just couldn’t handle her energy. It’s not

Hugo: yeah,

Kathy: love her, but for once I actually did that. set boundaries. That was one of the hardest things. And I was like, was so scared. I was like, Oh my God, I’m going to hurt her.

And like thinking about her. And I was like, no, this is about me. This is

Hugo: yeah,

Kathy: time. And so I did that and I felt so empowered. It actually made me feel like, I am pretty, I’m pretty powerful. You know, because when you’re depressed, you feel like you’re worthless. You feel. know like less than

Hugo: yeah,

Kathy: do something for yourself, you’re like [00:23:00] dang it gives you confidence So

Hugo: yeah. Well, then finally someone is in your corner. like it sounds like you, like you weren’t even in your own corner yourself, let alone anyone else. Um, yeah,

Kathy: So I think that was a hard lesson for me that god or source wanted me to learn like hey If you want a child, how are you going to take care? of a child that you can’t even take care of yourself and your own needs, you

Hugo: yeah,

Kathy: was like Like looking back now i’m like, holy smokes. It’s so true Like how am I gonna say yes to all these things and then not care about my child?

No,

Hugo: yeah,

Kathy: that’s not true That’s not Right

Hugo: yeah,

Kathy: Now I know, like, my child is first, because it took forever to get her anyways. But then, also, you know, it, I, I feel so comfortable saying no when I’m really not able to do it.

Hugo: yeah.

Kathy: put myself first, which is, which is such a good, good lesson that I, [00:24:00] that I had.

Hugo: Yeah. and that was, that lesson was learned. Like in the, in that time span where you were trying to get pregnant, , that’s already so valuable, I think, to hear because this is the, this is the stuff that no one talks about, right? Like, it’s not always complicated or complex, like the solution can be relatively simple, but it’s that first step that you need to take.

to, well, like it is possible to pick yourself first

Kathy: Yeah.

Hugo: for yourself.

Kathy: It’s so true. And exactly. You hit it on the nail where you said everything doesn’t have to be as complicated as you think it is. And I believe that our mind makes up so much narratives that we always psych ourselves out and we always think it’s more complicated than it is,

Hugo: Oh Yeah. Yeah.

Kathy: isn’t.

Hugo: There’s always reasons to not do something like your mind tends to just think negatively and like, [00:25:00] oh, there’s this little voice of self doubt telling you like, Hey, what, what if, you know, what if this happens or what if that person, you know, you hurt that. person’s feelings or anything. Yeah.

Kathy: I guess have that confidence of like, oh, well, you know, I’m only worrying about my emotions, how I feel, and your emotions are your job to take care of. And that’s a hard lesson that I had to learn too, right? Like, I’m doing all of this out of the goodness of my heart and you don’t want to listen or you don’t want to change for the better?

Like, you know, no, their lesson. Just let it be. Let it go, right? That’s another hard lesson. Just let it go. Take care of yourself. And then that’s why you have, like, for me, that’s why I had so much mental health issues. I was caring about so much things, trying to control everything or everybody.

And it’s like, you can’t. Yeah.

Hugo: no, no. And that’s the thing. Like, it’s simple, but [00:26:00] it doesn’t make it easy, though.

Kathy: Yeah, that’s true. That’s why self love is so important. I found meditating was such a great powerful tool for me I know a lot of people will say oh meditation meditation No I really believe that sitting with yourself quieting your mind because we live in such a fast paced world We need it now like

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Kathy: need it.

If you

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: you need it. You

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: You need quiet

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: You

Hugo: you’ve got even one social media app installed on your phone, your quality.

Kathy: I

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: totally believe this because You Think about we’re scrolling our minds are always like used to something like 10 seconds 10 seconds

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: we can’t even sit down and like have conversations with people or um, I don’t know without being distracted I feel and meditation at least five minutes a day literally forces your brain Physical body and mind to just sit there to be quiet so then you can learn to be [00:27:00] in silence and not have your brain like give you so much crazy stories,

Hugo: So, so what does five minutes of meditation look like for you specifically?

Kathy: Oh, I love listening to gratitude or like gratitude meditations, like trying to

Hugo: Uh huh.

Kathy: your, um, your

Hugo: I think positively and Yeah, yeah.

Kathy: affirmations. Oh,

Hugo: It happens sometimes on this platform. It’s the second time it’s happened. So for the listeners out there, what happened, what just happened was that the video just gave a thumbs up automatically. The robots are listening on this conversation and giving the thumbs up.

Kathy: So, hey, it’s a confirmation that meditation is a good thing then

Hugo: Speak of the devil. Yeah, we’re, we’re talking about, um, gratitude and yeah.

Kathy: Yeah, and I like to start my day with these positive affirmations like

Hugo: Yeah, yeah.

Kathy: I am grateful I am

Hugo: So five minutes, you just sit on a couch or [00:28:00] on, on, on, on, on the bedside.

Kathy: sit on my bed directly having the sunrise Hitting my face

Hugo: Okay.

Kathy: it just meditate for five minutes and it hits my face with my headphones of the positive affirmations. Oh my God, it feels so good.

I’m not joking.

Hugo: I like I like It it’s

Kathy: just like, I get these tingly sensations in my body. So, yeah,

Hugo: it’s not just, the benefit of, of. You know, meditation, it’s also the benefit of having positivity around you while enjoying the sunlight, which is also proven to be good for your mental health. Um, it’s a win, win, win.

Kathy: Yes. Correct. So yeah, if you want to win and to, you know, at the same time, do it. the sun hitting you. So

Hugo: yeah,

Kathy: first

Hugo: All right. So,

Kathy: like set your day up, you know,

Hugo: so we’ve got self, self love. We’ve got, um, saying no, learning to [00:29:00] say no. And we’ve got meditation. Is there anything else?

Kathy: Let’s see gratitude is part of it, too This is I mean we kind of touched on it with meditation, but literally practicing gratitude like

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: So this is my practice So three day three things you’re grateful for the first thing you wake up and three things at least before you go to bed

Hugo: Okay. and You write it down in like a journal or on a notepad or something.

Kathy: just say it, but people have gratitude journals to,

Hugo: Yeah,

Kathy: feel. I’m lazy. I just don’t want to write it down. I just say it in my mind, you

Hugo: yeah

Kathy: Um, but honestly, I, I didn’t believe this. either. I was like, how does practicing gratitude literally make you feel better? Or, you know, get you out of that depressed state and help with mental health?

But it does because when you’re in a grateful mindset, you like raise your elevation or vibration and [00:30:00] so your mind starts saying positive narratives instead of like negative, right? Like when you think of something, you’ll be more positive than when you don’t,

Hugo: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and so so how long how long how many days did it take you before you realize? Hey, this is helpful. This is actually helping me. Was it just on the first day or did it.

take a month or something?

Kathy: No three days,

Hugo: three days, okay.

Kathy: try it

Hugo: so

Kathy: days. Um, and I tested this on a client of mine. Okay. I

Hugo: Yeah

Kathy: My friend’s, uh, she, she texted me. She, a client, she was depressed because she actually got out of college per usual people who get out of college. She didn’t have a job or I, or she got laid off of a job or something like that.

And she was like, I’m not at the life where I want to be right now. So she was just depressed. And I was like, okay, please write three [00:31:00] things, at least three things every night and text it to me before you go to bed.

Hugo: Mm hmm.

Kathy: kid you, three days after that, she was like, Oh my gosh, I’m back to normal. I feel great.

Like I’m just, I feel like was just taking everything for granted, um, that I already had. And I was like, yes, that’s the power of gratitude because you shift your mindset.

Hugo: Oh yeah, there’s, there’s so many studies out there and, and I’ve written about it on Tracking Happiness. Like, it’s all out there. Like, it has been proven that

Kathy: Yeah.

Hugo: even if you’re forcing yourself to think positively, there are positive sides effect to that. And it doesn’t cost any money. Anyone can do it. So it is really, well, it sounds cheesy and I, I understand why people might be skeptical, but it is efficient.

Kathy: Yes, and I love how you added that there are studies on this and I’m like, I don’t, I [00:32:00] didn’t, you know, like do research on it, but then I saw it through actually having people around me practicing and myself doing it. I was like, okay, I’m a believer. I don’t, I don’t, like, you know,

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: the person who always wants to try everything.

And I think that When you are in a depressed state or you have mental health issues I think the best way too is to be open minded to trying anything

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Kathy: if you really want to out of this the state that you’re in Right, you have to be open to trying anything that works for you because maybe this thing works for me But then maybe something else sticks for you that you you might love how would you know if you never try it, right?

Hugo: yeah.

Kathy: So I

Hugo: It’s funny. I asked a previous guest on the podcast, like if, if there’s one word that you, that you would describe your, your journey with, like what helped you most? And she said, uh, curiosity,

Kathy: Mmm,

Hugo: curious, being open to new stuff. [00:33:00] Um, and I kind of get a deja vu here. Like, uh, if you’re in the. Yeah, if you’re never curious, then you’re never gonna find something that, that you don’t know exists, but can help your life in an amazing way.

Kathy: Yes, exactly. I think being open mind minded, and I think that’s why I tried everything in 2021 because I wanted to figure out. What worked for me.

Hugo: Oh, yeah,

Kathy: to be honest, acupuncture didn’t really work for me. It made me actually have less anxiety, but like it didn’t help with the actual fertility issue. But I guess, in holistic well being, everything is connected.

Hugo: oh Yeah, yeah

Kathy: right? So, if I was less anxiety, less stress, then I guess it helps with infertility because then your

Hugo: Yeah

Kathy: in flight or fight mode. So,

Hugo: Yeah

Kathy: you have to try everything. You didn’t, then you just never know.

Hugo: You can only [00:34:00] confidently say that something doesn’t work if you’ve tried it. Yeah,

Kathy: Yeah,

Hugo: Yeah, really nice

Kathy: sure though for sure eating healthy I believe that eating healthy was one of the biggest components too of me Being in a better mental state because if you eat a lot of like processed foods You’re just your mental ability just declines

Hugo: Yeah,

Kathy: like you’re not you’re less energized You’re less open to trying new things because you just physically don’t feel good and mentally.

Hugo: And it’s addicting

Kathy: is medicine, so

Hugo: Yeah,

Kathy: of the best ways to really heal yourself is to eat healthy

Hugo: yeah,

Kathy: at least nutrient dense foods as much as possible.

Hugo: yeah, there’s a whole lot of other studies about gut health and how it relates to pretty much every other aspect of health. So it’s nice for you to, uh, to go out and say it to the listeners, Yeah,

And that’s again, like, it’s so simple, like you [00:35:00] don’t need to seek out a therapist to eat healthily. Um, it might be difficult, but anyone can do it.

Cook up a healthy meal. Uh, if you can, if you can buy fast food, you can also buy a healthy, uh, balanced meal, you know? Um, And so I do kind of want to bring this back to the well, bring this full circle. That’s, that’s a cool saying I use there. Um, so now, now you, you are a mother, you have a family, you have a young child crawling or walking somewhere in the house.

You,

Kathy: walking. She’s running. She’s a runner.

Hugo: yeah, and you’ve got all the edges of the tables like cushioned or you like every pointy, pointy end has been, have been treat, has been treated.

Kathy: Yes, she actually is in a stage of jumping. She loves jumping on the [00:36:00] couches, jumping off of everything. Yesterday, she jumped on the couch and, like, somersaulted onto the floor. Yeah.

Hugo: Yeah.

the acrobat.

Kathy: She’s so dangerous.

Hugo: And so, uh, how is life now?

Kathy: It is so, so good. I mean, of course being a parent is very stressful, but it’s literally everything that I imagined it would be. I love being a mom so much. It’s one of the most, Like magical things. And obviously she’s a miracle, right? She’s literally my miracle. And so when I see her, I’m like, dang, I had this miracle little being, she’s running around now, and I was like, I’ve been wishing for this and she brings me so much joy and really believe that infertility made me truly appreciate being a mom because I don’t take it for granted, you know,

Hugo: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Kathy: kids very easily, they, their

Hugo: They complain. Yeah.

They [00:37:00] complain about, uh, what you get. You know, that’s maybe a bit cheesy for me to say this, but because of your struggle, you’re able to. focus on the good side of, of what has happened and focus on what you have instead of what you don’t have.

Kathy: yeah, I try. I mean, I’m not perfect. I’m not going to lie to the listeners. It’s, of course, it takes a lot of work, but I believe that I’m pretty 90 percent positive. There’s always that 10 percent where, you know, other factors, like if you’re irritable or, you know, something causes you.

Truly, I believe that. Yeah, when I look at her, I’m just like so patient because I’m like, dude, at one point, I would have never even been able to teach her this lesson or whatever it may be. And then when she does something, it’s just so magical. We’re potty training her right now. And I’m like, okay, she does mistakes.

And then at first I want to get upset, but then I’m like, no, she’s, she’s like learning. And it’s beautiful because she’s so patient. She did an accident like halfway. She did pee on the floor and then she goes, [00:38:00] mommy, it’s on the floor. And I was like, okay, run to the toilet. And then she did finish in the toilet.

And I was like, oh my God, that’s such a proud moment. Like she did catch herself, you

Hugo: Yeah. Oh wow.

Kathy: it’s, so beautiful to see,

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: though the pee’s everywhere.

Hugo: Yeah. I, I, um, I’m not saying that these two can be compared, but I’ve got a, a small puppy last year and she’s right besides me. She just finished her chewing toy. But yeah, pee has been on every surface on this, on this house. Yeah.

Kathy: Yeah. It’s tough potty training. Yeah.

Hugo: Yeah. Yeah. whether it’s a dog, a child, or, uh, anything. Yeah.

Kathy: There are babies. Honestly, there are precious babies. Yeah.

Hugo: Yeah. And So what do you do now?

Kathy: So I am still a patent paralegal in the daytime, and then I do life coaching. I’m an empowerment coach, [00:39:00] um, on the side, and yeah, I love, I just love coaching and helping other people. you know, helping them go through what I went through and what I’ve learned. I feel like that was literally what me into my life purpose to infertility was

Hugo: Yeah,

Kathy: really help bring me into helping other people in this way, which is, which is beautiful and fun.

Hugo: that’s another thing that gets, that comes full circle then. Like the things that you went through, uh, you’re now using those experiences to help others through that same rollercoaster as you so nicely called it.

Kathy: Yeah. Yes, it’s true. But only can you like teach others. truly, unless you actually go through them and then experience them and to teach what you’ve learned. And that’s how you can truly help somebody change their life for the better too.

Hugo: Yeah.

Kathy: you gonna teach somebody [00:40:00] if you’ve never really went through it

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Kathy: it?

Hugo: Yeah, exactly. Well, you’ll be like your sisters who are like, Hey, what’s up?

Kathy: Yeah,

Hugo: Well,

Kathy: I’m like thinking about my sister’s coaching. It makes me laugh.

Hugo: Well, yeah. Um, And so if someone wants to talk to you, wants to chat, it’s like, Hey, I want to reach out to Kathy. Where can they reach you at?

Kathy: my website. You can check me out@www.kathymo.com. So my name is K-A-T-H-Y-M-O-U, and then you can find me on Instagram. My handle is kathy dot mal. And then on TikTok and Facebook is just Kathy Mal without the dot.

Hugo: So you’ve got like three social media platforms. That, hence the meditation, like three, three times five minutes twice a day. That’s already, uh, It’s a half an hour a day.

Kathy: Yeah, it’s a lot. It’s a lot. But, that’s fine. Meditation helps [00:41:00] ground you.

Hugo: Exactly. Okay, I do have the most ridiculous question at the end of the podcast here. I almost forgot. I’m done. I’m gonna do an intro for the podcast where I ask my guests to announce the tracking happiness podcast so I can all mesh it together and it will be like a fun party at the start of each episode.

Kathy: Cool.

Hugo: Are you are you willing to yell or sing or whisper? Whatever you want. Okay. Whisper or whatever you want. Say the tracking happiness podcast for me.

Kathy: Yeah,

Hugo: So we’ll do it.

together on the count of one, on the count of three, right?

Kathy: I’ll say it loud. Happy

Hugo: Three, two, one, the tracking happiness podcast.

Kathy: course.

Hugo: Awesome. And I’m definitely going to leave that in there because my outros are whack anyway.

Um, yeah, Thank you so much for uh, having been here and for this awesome conversation.[00:42:00]

Kathy: Thank you for having me. And you, if you need me to redo that one, I can. I got lots of energy.

Hugo: There’s, there’s beauty in imperfect things and I I want to keep it that way.

Kathy: love it.

Hugo: All right, have a, have a great day and thanks again.

Kathy: You too.

Hugo: Well, there you have it. That was another episode of the Tracking Happiness podcast. Now, if you liked this episode, please leave a review of this podcast on the platform you’re listening to. It will really help me share these stories with more people. If you didn’t like this episode, yeah, just disregard all that.

If you want to learn more about my guest, do check out any links in the notes below. Or if you want to be a guest on the podcast, please go to trackinghappiness. com slash share your story. And before you know it, you will help others overcome their own struggles of mental health. Lastly, I hope you have a great day wherever you are.

See you in the next one. Bye bye.